View Single Post
Old 04-18-2021, 05:35 AM   #12
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,309
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
Tolkien

So, it's taken me a couple days, but I sat down and went looking for the phrase "it is said" in the Silmarillion, to give us some fodder for this thread, and here's the start of what I found. It goes right back to the beginning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in the Ainulindalë
And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Iluvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor"
For they remembered the Avari that remained by the waters of their awakening, and they did not utterly forsake the Noldor in exile; and Manwe knew also that the hour of the coming of Men was drawn nigh. And it is said indeed that, even as the Valar made war upon Melkor for the sake of the Quendi, so now for that time they forbore for the sake of the Hildor, the Aftercomers, the younger Children of Ilúvatar.
What I noticed with a couple of them, starting with this next one, is that after the "it is said" phrase, we get "but" or "yet" followed by the next clause--the narrator himself tells us the majority opinion and qualifies it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of the Return of the Noldor"
It is said indeed that Maedhros himself devised this plan, to lessen the chances of strife, and because he was very willing that the chief peril of assault should fall upon himself; and he remained for his part in friendship with the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin, and would come among them at times for common counsel. Yet he also was bound by the oath, though it slept now for a time.
Okay, the "but" here is a bit less of a contradiction of the factuality of the first statement--it isn't saying Turgon didn't name it, just that it was known in Sindarin by a different name:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"
But Turgon dwelt still for the most part in Nevrast, until it came to pass that at last the city was full-wrought, after two and fifty years of secrjet toil. It is said that Turgon appointed its name to be Ondolinde in the speech of the Elves of Valinor, the Rock of the Music of Water, for there were fountains upon the hill; but in the Sindarin tongue the name was changed, and it became Gondolin, the Hidden Rock.
In this case, the "but" actually introduces the "it is said"

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of the Noldor in Beleriand"
Now King Finrod Felagund had no wife, and Galadriel asked him why this should be; but foresight came upon Felagund as she spoke, and he said: 'An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit.'
But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled him; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.
Here's one for Urwen. (Also following the "introduced by the yet/but" pattern):

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of Maeglin"
Yet it is said that Maeglin loved his mother better, and if Eol were abroad he would sit long beside her and listen to all that she could tell him of her kin and their deeds in Eldamar, and of the might and valour of the princes of the House of Fingolfin.
I wasn't looking for it, but I found a double-hearsay in this passage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien in "Of the Coming of Men into the West"
Thus it was that Men called King Felagund, whom they first met of all the Eldar, Nom, that is Wisdom, in the language of that people, and after him they named his folk Nomin, the Wise. Indeed they believed at first that Felagund was one of the Valar, of whom they had heard rumour that they dwelt far in the West; and this was (some say) the cause of their journeying. But Felagund dwelt among them and taught them true knowledge, and they loved him, and took him for their lord, and were ever after loyal to the house of Finarfin.
Now the Eldar were beyond all other peoples skilled in tongues; and Felagund discovered also that he could read in the minds of Men such thoughts as they wished to reveal in speech, so that their words were easily interpreted. It is said also that these Men had long had dealings with the Dark Elves east of the mountains, and from them had learned much of their speech; and since all the languages of the Quendi were of one origin, the language of Beor and his folk resembled the Elven-tongue in many words and devices.

And that's where I ran out of copy/paste energy. There are twenty more instances of "it is said" in the published Silm (including the "Akallabêth" and "Of the Rings of Power"--I just have other things to do with my life than copying over quotations all day!

Run free with the "ah, but it could be other things than what the people said" speculation!
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.

Last edited by Formendacil; 04-18-2021 at 05:36 AM. Reason: Misspelling fixed.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote