Mithadan tipped me off to the thread here, so I thought I would take a peek....
"What exactly is being referred to as 'canonical' when that word is used here?"
There is no one answer. Almost everyone agrees on LotR/Bombadil/Guide to names and places, most would also consider the Hobbit and Silm.
I will say that for myself who had the good fortune [?] to read Silm, UT and BoLT has they came out Canon became an early and curious question that could not hope to be answered till the HoME series was completed [ and now even that must be revised a bit in the light of the gems being supplied by CRRT to the Vinyar Tengwar journal }.
I left off serious M-E study from Lays till 2000, and when I came back the whole world had changed!!!
For younger folks [ or newer older readers!] the lines of division between HoME, Silm and UT must seem considerably thinner than to us elder ; ) readers.
For a decade or so Silm was indisputibly cannonical in all but the most obscure and highly placed circles.
The passing references in UT where not enough to despoil the idea that CRRT had done anythong other than a masterful job of creating the Silm.
Now we see however, esp w/ HoME 4, 5 and 10-12, that CRRT himself admits errors [ Gil-Galad's parentage being the most glaring ] , and that CRRT even has come to believe a canonical version or i should say final version of the Silmarillion was impossible, and wished he had not tried.
I for one am very glad he did, otherwise the lacuna posed by the Turin/Doriath material might never have been filled by anyone w/ the name of tolkien and a senitivity to M-E.
personally i wish he had been even bolder and done as Brian Herbert has and really made the world his own.
but alas we are left w/ a myriad of cannonical confusions to which I also believe there is no perfect solution.
One can be interested in the question for a few reasons that I am aware of:
- desire to know which idea and writings are the latest
- desire to know which ideas were rejected by JRRT
- have an insane desire to create a seamless continuum of 1st - 3rd age writings that omit no detail of story but still reads beautifully, and have yet to be committed to an asyluml
- would like to be able to read the 'real' Silmarillion to one's kids w/out a byzantine cross-referencing of the Silm, UT and HoME 2-5 ,Home 10-12 and an assortment of Vinyar tengwar issues.
- One wants to write fanfiction based on the 'real' version
Ironically enough last I heard the Silmarillion as pub. by CRRT is official canon here at the downs [ in terms of the encyclopedia] kind of ironic huh?
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anyway can there be a definitive canon of writings ?
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probably not - only CRRT in my opinion had the authority and means to do what he tried to do w/ ' the Silmarillion'. The only other possiblility [which I consider only somewhat less likely than ever seein an honest president in the white house again] is that a group of legendariumists [ a large number, say at least a few dozen if not at least 1 gross] get together and debate and vote and then re-edit. Only time can tell whether their decisions and productions would be taken seriously [ it would of course probably succeed only in producing bitterly opposed camps and even possibly law suits!] .
I confess to being at one time crazy enough to try and engineer a form of the above mentioned council. unfortunately most of the Tolkien world seems wiser than me and realized, silently it would seem the futilility of the project, and declined to waste precious mental energy, and who can blame them there are too many tid-bits o trivia to query , not too mention polls on 'one's favorite tolkien inspired death metal' and Balrog Wings /Bombadillian debates. that aside aside, there does not seem to be the time or patience for a concilliar canon. What can be done then?
Well most legendariumists have come to the intelligent conclusion that to worry their little heads about is pointless, why i will just enjoy the stories and get on w/ my life!
others will attemt to form a fripp might say 'small, mobile and intelligent units' that work on the myriad of issues and texts irresepctive of their place in legendarium history. there a re a stunning number of such works on the Silmarillion: Canon, Drafts and Theories forum.
And a couple of people are still laboring at odd and irregular intervals to create new texts according to dictates that each group must decide on.
perhaps the term 'sub-canon' is appropriate. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Why can no canon be decided upon a few might ask ?
:
1. tolkien fans have other priorites 2. CRRT decided against trying a second time. 3. JRRT left such a mass of semi and/or unresolved thorny issues [ creation of the Sun and moon, nature of orcs, galadriel, the 2nd doom of mandos, who is the compiler < BB or Aelfwine or a combination> number of balrogs [ forget the wings!], not too mention the fact that he left Turin and Doriath in tatters along w/ a tantalizing bit on hurin's wanderings.
So in short I will sayy that in all liklihood we will all be given the task of deciding our own canon!
A sort of Protestant legendariumism, being Orthodox myself , I like the idea of councils better , but hey
as child o' the 7th age said:
Quote:
Now, I'm no expert on HoMe and these other pieces, but as I learn more I
find that I really like some of the later writings, precisely because Tolkien
seems willing to push himself further on some issues, be more explicit, than
he is in LotR. I'm talking about things like the notes in the Road Goes Ever
on, writings in Morgoth's Ring like Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, the
osanwe-kenta stuff in Vinyar Tengwar, and the article on Galadriel in UT.
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To myself also these writings are among the most precious [ I would also throw in laws and customs, the Druedain and the later Turin] in the whole of the legendarium, and I would love to see them receive their due place in the ' Silmarillion'.
sorry for the ramble!!
[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]