[Lalwendë]

Loads of nightmares! Goody! Have you all been eating cheese before bedtime?

Originally Posted by Laitoste

I vividly remember a dream/nightmare I had when I first read The Lord of the Rings. I was being chased by Gollum, who was riding one of the Ringwraiths horses and wanted to strangle me. But other than that one instance, I cannot say I have ever been frightened of The Lord of the Rings. Instead, I'm intrigued by what is supposed to be scary. The Witchking's line, that Lal quoted earlier, is probably one of my favorites in the book. It's meant to be read with such malice, such hate...and though I am no dramatist, I can't help but read it out loud... But why else do I like it? I can't say, exactly. Perhaps it's because I like to imagine what I would do in the face of such power--or with that power. Perhaps not. It is fun to think about the fear you could inspire in people, if you really wanted to.

That's why I got thinking about this thread. The books have a dark side, and it's thrilling. I know that Tolkien thought that those who lusted after power were wrong, and he set them up for some terrible endings, but who hasn't imagined what it would be like to actually have that Ring? To have that power?! If you have, you wouldn;t be alone. Even Galadriel imagined it. I saw that she'd thought those wrong thoughts too.

Nightmares about the books. Here's a funny story. My scariest nightmare based on Tolkien's work was one about a Gollum action figure coming to life and running round the house with malevolent glee, teeth bared and riding the cat like a fell beast; like the Mexican day of the Dead. Had I been eating nachos with cheese before bedtime? Maybe.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Quite true, though. The concept of "suffering" is still an essential part of the Catholic Church these days, even after a very large makeover in Vatican II.

I don't know what Vatican I and Vatican II are (sounds like a Bruce Willis franchise!) but I do know that Tolkien struggled with Vatican II, and I presumed it involved big changes to the church. Obviously if it was about moving from the apocalyptic, visceral style to a more cuddly one then this is significant in what Tolkien liked, and why Tolkien was so Gothic.

Originally Posted by Hookbill

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that, the world Tolkien created was essentially a pseudo medieval world. The ancient (and, let's face it, the modern) world was a very violent place. Life is, to all outside viewers, I would expect, a pretty blood curdling, terrifying and nasty thing.

The medieval world was indeed much more earthy and bloody. Torture was common, and physical punishment, and they could be very inventive about it, dreaming up nasty ways of dealing with miscreants such as pickpockets and heretics worthy of a modern serial killer. The Iron Maiden. The Blood Eagle. Being flayed alive and having your skin pinned to the church door. Hung, drawn and quartered. And in war (according to a friend who was a Saxon re-enactor) they used biological warfare, tipping arrows in rotten corpses, and hurling parts of anthrax ridden cattle over the walls of beseiged castles.

Originally Posted by Boromir 88

Don't forget gruesome killings

I only noticed that one recently to be honest. I was reading the appendices and was struck by how nasty this was. Love those demon horses though (love the Thestrals in Potter too, which they remind me of) - I always think of somehow peeled horses. But what I don't like, and what doesn't give me a thrill, is worrying that any animals were hurt. Typical Brit. Thrilling at tales of war and horror and madness but getting outraged when animals get harmed.

Any more moments of horror genius?

What about when the Witch-King 'sees' Frodo? I'll leave you with this to savour:

the Rider halted suddenly, right before the entrance of the bridge, and behind him all the host stood still. There was a pause, a dead silence. Maybe it was the Ring that called to the Wraith-lord, and for a moment he was troubled, sensing some other power within his valley. This way and that turned the dark head helmed and crowned with fear, sweeping the shadows with its unseen eyes. Frodo waited, like a bird at the approach of a snake, unable to move. And as he waited, he felt, more urgent than ever before, the command that he should put on the Ring