[Huinesoron]

Looking purely at the passage in the article Bethberry linked relating to the Legendarium:

In terms of Tolkien’s legendarium, what examples do we have of post-menopausal women? In terms of the elves, he notes in “The Laws and Customs Among the Eldar” in Morgoth’s Ring that, despite their longeval nature, elves, like humans, primarily reproduce in their relative youth; despite retaining the “power of generation” for as long as needed, it is natural for them to no longer have such a desire after some time and “the mind turns to other things” (MR 213). (...) it comes in the same assemblage of writings in which we have Fëanor’s mother, Míriel, will herself to die in an effort to maintain autonomy over her own reproductive rights. There is also the unfortunate case of Elrond’s wife, Celebrían, whose sole purpose in the narrative is to give him three children; after being assaulted (perhaps even sexually assaulted) at the hands of orcs, she is conveniently shipped oversea and out of the narrative. In terms of mortals, we have the busybody nursemaid Ioreth (whose name literally means “old woman” in Sindarin) and the foul-tempered, spoon-stealing Lobelia Sackville-Baggins as our primary examples. In hindsight, a menopausal reading of Lobelia might be very interesting indeed. If someone has written that paper, please let me know – I’d love to read it! If no such paper exists, someone has to write it.

I am *baffled* by the choice of examples. Miriel is in there despite effectively dying in childbirth (and that description of her death, um, does not align with my understanding of the text). Celebrian is... not even a character in the narrative, she's a character on the *timeline* who exists as an excuse for Elrond not to have a wife. (Also, sexually assaulted? I've read that fanfic, don't think it was written by Tolkien!) Ioreth I remember as basically fine. Lobelia steals the spoons possibly before her son is even born, and ends up as the sole native revolutionary against a fascist state.

And the *missing* names! It's notably ridiculous to call Celebrian menopausal but ignore her mother, who is out there ruling Lorien and wielding an Elven ring. Or what about Gilraen, who has actual narrative appearances as a post-menopausal woman? Andreth is raised by someone in the comments on the post, and dismissed by the author as not aligning with Tolkien's view as interpreted from the letter. And should we count Nerdanel or Melian, on the same grounds as Celebrian - immortal woman past the Time of the Children?

In response to the Andreth comment (which noted that her wisdom indicates 'He may have been more understanding of it than you perceive him to be in this letter'), the author says:

I think if the reader reviews the letter and sees all of the comments I quoted in context it is fairly clear that at least in this letter Tolkien is voicing an opinion about women and menopause that is not positive (nor aligning it with wisdom).

That may be true about the letter (I cannot review it as the author suggests, I don't have NewLetters yet), but it definitely does not, as the author seems to indicate, translate to "female characters past childbearing are killed off or written negatively".

hS