Thread: Tal-Elmar
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:49 PM   #2
ArcusCalion
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TE-SL-01: This is fine, but I would edit it differently:
Quote:
TE-SL-01 <Akallabêth Then Tar-Ancalimon, son of Atanamir, became King, and he was of like mind to his father; and in his day ...
It flows better.
I also wonder if we can include the Adunaic translation of the term 'Faithful,' like so:
Quote:
... the Elf-friends; TE-SL-01.5 <based on Hist. of Akalla [Footnote: Nimruzîrim in the Adûnaic tongue.]> for though they ....
TE-SL-11: In Note 3, CT says that Tolkien changed all occurences of 'Fourth King' to 'North King' except here. However, it is clearly the North King that is meant, and so I would say we should change it to North King, since Tolkien clearly missed this occurrence.

TE-SL-12.5: There is no marker near this, but at the place where you removed footnote #9, the sentence as Tolkien wrote it is grammatically incorrect (which is why CT marked it with a footnote.) I suggest we fix it:
Quote:
'I heard, and I obey,' said Tal-elmar. 'But first errand is to the men, and there is need now of haste. Little honor have I among them, for they know well thy scorn of us. What heed will they pay, if TE-SL-12.5 one of the Slave's bastards, as thou namest us when I am not by, comes {(9)}
TE-SL-16: This is grammatically meaningless, so if we are to include it at all (which I am hesitant to do) we should add a 'that' before the 'he was called.'

TE-SL-24: I think this is fine, but it needs to be edited so that the tense agrees:
Quote:
TE-SL-24 <moved from below They {make}made Tal-Elmar at last understand their desire to know how many men {dwell}dwelt near; {are}were they friendly, {are}were they like he {is}was?
The object of the Númenóreans {is}was to occupy this land, and in alliance with the 'Cruels' of the North to drive out the Dark People and make a settlement to threaten the King. TE-SL-25 {(Or is this while Sauron is absent in Númenor?)The place is on estuary of Isen? or Morthond.}Tal-Elmar could count and understand high numbers, though his language was defective.
TE-SL-26: I would change the editorial addition to be shorter and smoother, and the tenses must also be changed to agree:
Quote:
TE-SL-26 <editorial addition The captain spoke then in Eldarin, since these were Elf-friends. He>{The captain says}said that Tal-Elmar must be of Númenórean race, or of the people akin to them. He must be kindly treated. He {guesses}guessed that he had been made captive as a babe, or born of captives. 'He is trying to escape to us,' he {says}said.
This is just shorter and smoother, and I think flows better.

TE-SL-27: I do not think we need this addition, since it is a pity if he knows nothing of the language either way, and I find this addition to be too much of a liberty.

TE-SL-29: This is indeed a very difficult thing to make. I proposed a few minor changes to this addition (mostly tense or things to improve the flow):
Quote:
... it must recount}It recounts the coming of the Númenóreans (Elf-friends) {before the Downfall}, and {represent}represents their choice of permanent havens. {So the}The geography must be {made to fit} that of the mouths of Anduin and the Langstrand{.},> TE-SL-30 <editorial addition since in the year> TE-SL-31 <LotR; Appendix B 2350 Pelargir ...
In addition, the last sentence of the Tal-Elmar story before this paragraph (Tal-Elmar offers himself as a hostage.) should be 'offered' instead of 'offers' because of tense agreement.

TE-SL-32/33: I think this paragraph is not good to include. We cannot say at all that Tal-Elmar ever went to those places (as indeed seems impossible, since the Numenorean power never reached nearly so far inland) and these names represent Tolkien simply jotting down rapid ideas without any thoughts about the story or plot attached. Therefore, I think we should end it with:
Quote:
There is no more TE-SL-32 <editorial addition told of Tal-elmar>.
This way we avoid the entire subject of what is essentially guided fanfiction.

TE-SL-35: I would just say that where you removed "in Gondor" it should be replaced with "by the Númenóreans" in order to preserve the fact that it was specific to the people of Numenor, and nota facet of, say, Elvish culture as well.

TE-SL-41: I would remove the entire footnote, since we used it in Of the Rings of Power, and I see no real need to repeat it here.

TE-SL-43: I would like to keep the bit about the Silvan Elves being Middle-Elves by Numenorean classification if possible, like this:
Quote:
... who came down the Anduin.} The Silvan Elves were Middle Elves according to the Númenórean classification, though unknown to the Atani until later days. {: for they were like the Sindar Teleri, ...
This may then be moved earlier to a place where it would make more sense, possibly right after TE-SL-38:
Quote:
TE-SL-38 {(62)} or were actually known to the Númenóreans. TE-SL-38.5 <moved from later [Footnote: {Gil-galad’s people ... came down the Anduin.} The Silvan Elves were Middle Elves according to the Númenórean classification, though unknown to the Atani until later days.]>
This way we preserve the only unused piece of the part we removed for use in Of the Rings of Power.

TE-SL-46: At the very last sentence of the chapter, the term 'linga franca' is used. This is a term that references the French language and its commonality in Europe as a language to communicate across countries, and I think strikes me as too meta-commentative in its use here. Therefore I marked it with this marker and I propose changing it to 'common speech.' This has the same meaning but without the real-world jargon.

Last edited by ArcusCalion; 06-06-2018 at 12:49 AM.
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