[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Many folk who do not believe in Tolkien's catholicism at all nonetheless percieve the truths that he reveals, and describe his myths and eucatastrophes as impacting and working in their lives.

Which is precisely the point that I am making. It is not the resonance with an individual's particular beliefs that causes them to respond to LotR, but something much deeper. It seems to me that LotR can still have great appeal to those who have (and continue to have) no, or very vaguely defined, spiritual beliefs. (The latter would describe the 70% to 80% of UK residents who describe themselves as believing in God but do not adhere to any organised religious group.)

This is the reason why I find littlemanpoet's thesis on mythic unities so interesting. For me, it touches on ideas of archetypes, shared experience and synchronicity, although I know far too little (or have forgotten far too much) about these concepts to go into great detail. All I can say is that LotR, it seems, touches a significant number of people on a much deeper level than any defined form of belief system.

But is discussion 'appeal' the same as discussing 'mythic unity'?

Well I think that "appeal" is relevant here, since it is the widespread and consistent appeal of LotR (which exceeds that of any other single novel, if the polls are to be believed) that makes me respond to the idea that there is something more than simply "a darn good read" at work here. Put simply, LotR appeals to a great many people. And, as you say, for a significant number of people (although perhaps not the majority of those to whom it appeals) it takes on a greater meaning, in the sense of making an appreciable difference in their lives. Why is this?

Threadwise I think the pertinent question might be do the mythic unities under discussion transcend the readers' conscious belief systems, penetrating below their awareness and affecting them on a mythic level?

In light of what I have said above, I would answer yes to this. And while there may be no decisive answer to the question of why this is the case, it seems to me that littlemanpoet has made a worthy and credible attempt to come up with one. I certainly think that it merits further exploration.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I do think that Tolkien's LotR is unrivaled in its achievement in terms of re-creating mythic unities, and it is because Tolkien was uniquely gifted to achieve it. He knew and understood the connectedness of myth, folklore, history, and language, in ways that we can only dream of. He was able to play with and create languages with as much ease as Mozart composing. Added to that was Tolkien's Beethovian perfectionism (generally lacking in Mozart).

Spot on. Although you are, in effect, again saying that Tolkien had a particular flair in this department, you capture perfectly for me precisely what it is that sets him out from other authors in the fantasy genre and, indeed, literature in general. Was he in fact unique in these regards or have there been other authors with the same mix of skills?

What I think might be useful is to examine exactly how he used these skills, not simply by pointing out the mythic unities to which littlemanpoet refers, but by also considering how he uses them in ways that set LotR apart from the works of other authors who have used similar techniques, and which give the book its widespread appeal. I fear that I may be poorly-qualified to comment further in this regard, but I would be interested to see the thoughts of others.