[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by lmp

Are not all the characters in LotR evoked by representing their behaviours?

Originally Posted by lmp

It is true that Gollum cannot keep his thoughts internalized, but it is not a natural condition for the other characters to keep their thoughts internalized either. As the quote describes, they are visible souls.

It's almost as if the discussion has come around full circle. I think that all the characters do display their 'souls' through their actions, and through their interactions; I think that there is not such a great contrast with 'modern' fiction, it is that instead of seeing the internalised thoughts of one protagonist, we see the psychological motivation of many characters, but expressed instead through representation of their thoughts in action and speech.

I did single out Gollum as we see more of his internal thought than we do of other characters, as he simply cannot keep his thoughts and, more importantly, basic impulses, to himself. Thus we see Gollum's soul truly laid bare; he is a raw character, brutal and immoral yet somehow fragile too. It's no surprise that he haunts the thoughts of many readers as somehow he reflects that most vulnerable and dark part of us all, that which is vulnerable to evil and corruption.

I like the way you bring in Frodo here. In Frodo we can see the beginnings of what happened to Gollum, but I do question how much of the effects can be down to the innate qualities of both Gollum and Frodo, as ultimately, the effects are the same, this 'evil' corrupts anyone who succumbs, no matter how good their intentions are. And I'm sure there is some kind of lesson in that.

Originally Posted by davem

We are 'thoughts' (of God) subcreating 'thoughts' of our own. I don't know why fractal images have just sprung to mind...

This is the infinite potential of time. We are here at one point and if we go this way then many things may happen but if we go the other way then many other things may happen. It might be termed fate, but ultimately if we did not go down x path then y could never have happened. Or could it? In the case of Frodo at the cracks of doom, who could have foreseen that Gollum would turn up and thus destroy the ring? It was as though the paths suddenly split but came back in upon themselves.

Originally Posted by davem

I'm reminded of something Bob Stewart said in an interview, about the way we talk about the 'ignorant past'. He made the point that we are currently living in what our decendants will refer to as their 'ignorant past'. I suppose in a sense Faery is eternaly 'there' yet always just out of reach - hence the yearning we feel when we read fairy stories. Perhaps 'Faerie' is that 'harmony' which we feel should be the way of things but isn't.

This is interesting as it hints at a basic fact of the human condition, that we are always looking about us for something which has been 'lost' to us. It might explain art, in that we seek to express the ineffable, or religion, in that we seek to find and construct a reason for the yearning, or even science in that we want to shape that uncertainty and find comfort in it. These are three aspects of human existence which I think are all linked to the soul, and more importantly to the sense of the soul, and to the sense that something is missing, just out of reach. It makes me wonder just how much each and every generation in this world has felt exactly the same as we do.