[The Saucepan Man]

Although I have been able to follow this thread over the last day or so, I have not had an opportunity to post. And since there is no conceivable way that I can respond to everything that has been said in the interim as fully as I would like to, I will simply attempt to summarise my position, briefly explore whether there might be any common ground between us and leave it at that for now.

I hope that it is abundantly clear from what I have been saying that I am not seeking to deny anyone’s experience of Tolkien’s works. Davem, I accept, of course, that you genuinely react to them in the way that you have described. I believe you when you say that you have found glimpses of “Truth” and “Joy” in Tolkien’s works. I believe Helen too when she says the same and I do not doubt that H-I and Sharon and many others besides have had very similar experiences. As far as I am concerned, all of your reactions are entirely valid, and I find each one of them fascinating. This is precisely why I keep coming back to this thread time and time again (and will continue to do as long as it lasts, even if just in the role of observer). However, I will not and cannot agree that your experience, or anyone else’s for that matter, is somehow more valid or right or truthful than mine, and that I am either somehow wrong for not experiencing the books in the same way or in some way afraid of opening myself up to that experience. Surely you must accept that others will experience the books differently, albeit no less validly, to you?

If we are going to use capitalised terms such as “Truth” or “Joy” or “Light”, which clearly (in light of their capitalisation) have some meaning to the people using them beyond their common usage, then I think it is necessary for those using them to provide some sort of definition. Otherwise, how are those of us who see no such meaning supposed to be able to compare what it is that they are being used to describe with our own experiences and determine whether there is any common ground and, if so, where it might lie? And I most certainly do not require a definition by reference to “facts and figures” but rather by reference to emotions, feelings and concepts (as commonly understood).

Having said that, I think that I do now have a reasonable understanding of what people mean when they use these terms. And, like Aiwendil, I do feel that everyone means something slightly different by them, although that does not surprise me since everyone is different and will react differently based upon their own beliefs and experiences. Of course, I am aware that Helen, for example, would say that the “Truth” is the same for everybody and that it is just the “glimpses” of that “Truth” which vary. And that’s fine by me. I'm content to agree to disagree on that one because it is the “glimpses” that I would prefer to concentrate on. That, I think, is where we will find the common ground.

And, like Sharon, it seems to me that there is a lot of common ground if we only take the time to look for it. It is clear to me from reading the posts here (and elsewhere on this forum) that I am not alone in experiencing intense joy and deep sadness in Tolkien’s works. And the feeling of enchantment that those works engender is a common experience too. Tolkien champions the virtues of friendship, courage, humility, goodness and love, to name but a few. These surely are values which we can all appreciate and respond to positively in the characters who display them. Just as we can all appreciate the dangers of pride and lust for power and domination from those characters that display these characteristics. And I think that we can recognise the dilemmas that we are presented with in our own lives in the situations faced by characters such as Boromir, Denethor, Eowyn and even Saruman. And yes, we can be inspired to try and live our lives in a better way as a result of reading about these characters and the experiences which they undergo (although we shouldn't need Tolkien’s tales to prompt us to do so).

It seems to me we are all capable of experiencing these things when we read LotR and the other tales, whether we believe them to be glimpses of some over-arching “Truth” or “Joy” or not, and whether or not we believe in the existence of God. Of course, not everyone will respond to them (at least not in the way Tolkien presents them, even though they may share the same values). And we will all respond to them differently, based upon our own personal values and experiences. But I would hazard a guess that they are important features of Tolkien’s works to most, if not all, of those posting here. And I am sure that there is much more common ground between us too.

So, when I say that my experience of Tolkien’s works is different from davem’s, or Helen’s or Aiwendil’s or Bêthberry’s, I am not saying that it is entirely different. In very many ways, there are a great deal of similarities between each of our individual experiences, I am sure. All I am saying is that we should acknowledge the differences, accept that we cannot force the entirety of our own experiences on others and move on to find the common ground.

Now, where does that gets us in terms of “Canonicity v the reader”? As should be clear from what I have been saying throughout this thread, I am in favour of the reader (subject to the restrictions placed upon him or her by the text itself). But I am also in favour of groups of readers sharing (not imposing) experience and attempting to find common ground within the “interpretive communities” that Bêthberry talked of. Indeed, why would I be on this forum if I wasn’t?

(Oh, and yes, H-I, I believe that moral “truths” do “lie in numbers” in the sense that I believe that the basic framework of human morality is a consequence of the social evolution of man: the survival of the most socially effective morals. But I doubt that is common ground. )