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Old 05-29-2009, 12:15 AM   #19
Farael
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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So here's a thought calling for moderate numbers of Dwarves and men of Erebor and still a three-day fight

Something I've always found interesting in LoTR and Middle Earth in general is how some characters never tire out. Now, elves and dwarves may be super-human but let's take the example of a (very exceptional) man.

At the beginning of TTT Aragorn:
-Runs with little or no rest for three days
-Sleeps one night by Fangorn. He was probably grieved by the (apparent) loss of the hobbits, but let's say that he was used to grief being a warrior and he slept well anyway.
-Walks into Fangorn, meets Gandalf, walks out and then shortly thereafter rides in a hurry to Edoras.
-Has a meal in Edoras and then he rides out with the host of Theoden
-After camping up for the night, the fleeing/retreating men find their group and they decide to ride on to Helm's Deep (so no sleep there)
-The battle of Helm's Deep lasts through the night and into the morning
-They ride to Isengard
and they get one night of sleep on the way there, interrupted by the Huorns moving around
-They get to Isengard, deal with Saruman, and leave, riding back that same day
-At some point after camping up for the night Pippin does his thing and then a Nazghul flies by, prompting everyone to rush out
-The Grey Company catches up with them and they ride on to Dunharrow
-They spend the night in Dunharrow and then ride to the paths of the dead
-If I'm not mistaken, they spend the whole day going through it and then riding like mad to make it to the gathering point at the right time

Things become fuzzy after that, as we don't exactly know if he rested on the way to intercept the Corsairs, but let's just stop here and count

The bolded part amounts to two and a half days WITHOUT SLEEP (other than possibly quick, interrupted naps). That is after three days of extreme physical effort. FOLLOWED by more extreme physical challenges. And after that, he still fights before the walls of Minas Tirith

Now, Aragorn is a very special man, but even if the men from Dale were half as strong as he was, three days of fighting against unreasonable odds would be possible. Furthermore, even if they were regular men, it would be possible if the terrain was just right! As far as I know, it is not told WHERE the battle took place, perhaps King Brand was a master strategist who managed to funnel the enemy somewhere their overwhelming numbers were useless.

And here's another thought. Orcs seem to be easy to kill. We can all agree that army against army if orcs don't have a significant advantage in numbers they are done for.

Furthermore, I don't know where that quote came from, but it was said here that about half the forces in Pelennor were orcs (the rest thus being men). It seems to me that the forces of Sauron had numbers STRONGLY on their side and yet they were routed. Badly. Furthermore, a significant portion of the battle was fought on the fields, so it wasn't as if they were ONLY trying to take the city and being foiled by the great walls that stopped them from using their numbers...... so my question is

What makes you think that the evil humans were harder to kill than orcs?

So, if we have
a) An enemy that's relatively easy to kill
b) Men who don't tire easily AND
c) The right terrain so that even the limited force of men and dwarves can keep a significant portion of their number in reserve (and thus resting)

You COULD have a three-day engagement.

Disclaimer: Unfortunately I'm going by memory here so I could have messed up somewhere. Try to look at the whole picture of what I'm saying and not nitpick about something I missed! Not that you folks nitpick, of course.
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