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***Mithadan*** · 01-17-2001, 12:21 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
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Re: Frodo or the Ring?

I gave it a day hoping someone else might weigh in on the Gandalf is Manwe theory.

The desire of some people to place Valar in Middle Earth during the Third Age is beyond me. It runs contrary to what we know of the Valar; that they are aloof, rule from a distance, and are loath to involve themselves directly in the unfolding of the Tale of Arda. For Manwe to come to Middle Earth in the guise of Gandalf would be an abdication of his role as the Elder King. Further, Olorin was known in Valinor. He was a Maia. Surely Saruman would have noticed if a previously unknown Maia abruptly appeared as an Istari. The tale of his selection as an Istari is told in UT and he is referred to in the Valaquenta. Why would JRRT waste his time writing a "cover story" for Gandalf? And why would he hide Gandalf's "real" identity at the end or in his voluminous papers which became HoME?

Strangely enough, your theory is difficult to rebut, simply because it is entirely speculative and lacks concrete support. Manwe and Gandalf are not seen together in LoTR but this proves nothing. The same logic was used to support the Tom Bombadil is the Witch King theory on the Tolkien Sarcasm Page. Why should Gandalf be anyone but Gandalf? Why should Bombadil be anyone but Tom? Next? Glorfindel is really Orome? Radagast is a cross dressing Yavanna? (OF course, Sauron really IS Michael Jackson)

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

01-17-2001, 12:21 PM	#48
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,394	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 516</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Frodo or the Ring? I gave it a day hoping someone else might weigh in on the Gandalf is Manwe theory. The desire of some people to place Valar in Middle Earth during the Third Age is beyond me. It runs contrary to what we know of the Valar; that they are aloof, rule from a distance, and are loath to involve themselves directly in the unfolding of the Tale of Arda. For Manwe to come to Middle Earth in the guise of Gandalf would be an abdication of his role as the Elder King. Further, Olorin was known in Valinor. He was a Maia. Surely Saruman would have noticed if a previously unknown Maia abruptly appeared as an Istari. The tale of his selection as an Istari is told in UT and he is referred to in the Valaquenta. Why would JRRT waste his time writing a "cover story" for Gandalf? And why would he hide Gandalf's "real" identity at the end or in his voluminous papers which became HoME? Strangely enough, your theory is difficult to rebut, simply because it is entirely speculative and lacks concrete support. Manwe and Gandalf are not seen together in LoTR but this proves nothing. The same logic was used to support the Tom Bombadil is the Witch King theory on the Tolkien Sarcasm Page. Why should Gandalf be anyone but Gandalf? Why should Bombadil be anyone but Tom? Next? Glorfindel is really Orome? Radagast is a cross dressing Yavanna? (OF course, Sauron really IS Michael Jackson) --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.