[GreatWarg]

I think, Aiwendil, Estelyn, Child, that Bethberry is asking the 'why' question instead of the 'here is something that may be a mistake'. By pointing out something she believes to be something of discussion and worthy of questioning, she is asking the question 'Why did Tolkien put it this way, and not so-and-so way?' Or perhaps I am just mistaken with the nature of the argument.

I agree with Bethberry the fact that some of the professor's way of wording events can give one the impression that you have just 'fallen out of Middle-earth'. Sometimes, for me at least, it is wording that seems out of place, such as the fox's thoughts. I wonder what significance it adds, and why Tolkien left it where it was during his re-writings.

I think Estelyn made a very valid point on how wording affects the tone of the character or the story:

In thinking about posting here, I realized how important the possibility of turning around the elements of a sentence is to me, in order to be able to emphasize through that choice what I feel important. "I too would like to express my opinion" has quite a different connotation than "I would like to express my opinion too"!

"I too would like to express my opinion" gives us the effect of a more learned person who can give great ideas, while some of us may wince when one says "I would like to express my opinion too!" Perhaps this is the reason why some posting here tend to scare off the newbies?

So does Tolkien's writing gie us the impression of a learned man? I would say most certainly say so! Though perhaps one could argue over his usage of certain sentences.

EDIT: Aaah, cross-posting! Sorry, didn't see you there Aiwendil! I will attempt to make a reply.

We see that Frodo and Bilbo are exceptional hobbits, and their use of language is much different from, say Pippin or Merry, esp. when talking to folks of other kind:

For example, Frodo says in the chapter 'Three is Company' to the Elves:

The meaning of it, fair people, is simply that we seem to be going the same way as you are.

While Pippin and Sam tend to use less 'high' speech, as Pippin does when speaking to the Elves in the same chapter:

O Wise People! Tell us about the Black Riders!

This gives us the impression that Frodo and Bilbo are more learned.

Aiwendil wrote:

If this is the case, then I stand by my reply - that a great many older works use a similar style to Tolkien's, and that a great many modern works employ other techniques of phrasing with equal frequency, and that I don't think that all of these are poorly written.

No, not 'poorly written,' for I do agree that old pieces of work often re-use the same styles over and over, and they still remain very popular with me and many others. Do these, however, help the story or merely hinder it? It could be, once again, based on one's personal tastes and abilities to ignore exactly what is written but get the idea in their mind.

[ November 11, 2003: Message edited by: GreatWarg ]