The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Priya · 08-28-2025, 01:30 PM

Hello Huinesoron

I quite understand how your personal experience of the Downs in actual English counties left a deep impact. Deep enough that it ought to have had a memorable effect on Tolkien too. So, I agree, it would not be at all surprising if his personal vision for the novel’s localized countryside followed suit. Nevertheless, now that we have an inkling that one particular hill of our tale has a decent connection to Ireland’s Tara - it’s worthwhile contemplating whether other links can be uncovered.

But firstly, from my previous post - I much prefer to explore links to ‘fairies’ of the ‘fairy mound’. One idea I get from TLotR text is an underlying picture of little legendary creatures beneath a mushroom:

“The fog rolled up to the walls and rose above them, and as it mounted it bent over their heads until it became a roof: they were shut in a hall of mist whose central pillar was the standing stone.”
– The Fellowship of the Ring, Fog on the Barrow-downs

The Intruder, John Anster Fitzgerald, 1860

Do any other readers get the same kind of notion come to their minds? And then does Tom and Goldberry’s cavorting around the dining table leave an impression of fairies dancing in a circular fashion?

“… in some fashion they seemed to weave a single dance, neither hindering the other, in and out of the room, and round about the table; …”.
- The Fellowship of the Ring, In the House of Tom Bombadil

In combination, is that the sort of impression Tolkien wanted to leave?
Was his tale meant to be the origin of our world’s superstitions about ‘fairy rings’ and connected folklore to mushrooms?

A Mushroom Ring - A Natural Phenomenon

Pondering deeper on fairy connections, we also have the Sir Gawain and the Green Knight tale - where Lord Bertilak (and presumably his wife) are:

“… fay-magic folk …”,
 – ‘Sir Gawain and the Green Knight’, W.P. Ker Lecture Paper

Central to that fairy-story is the hollow hill of the Green Chapel and the lady’s ownership of a ‘green girdle’. It is a magical item which will protect its possessor from any deadly or injurious blow:

“For whoever goes girdled with this green riband, while he keeps it well clasped closely about him, there is none so hardy under heaven that to hew him were able; for he could not be killed by any cunning of hand.”
– ‘Sir Gawain and the Green Knight’, W.P. Ker Lecture Paper, 1953

Beyond coincidence is Tom’s remarkable possession of one too!

“green were his girdle and his breeches all of leather;”. 
– The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, 1962 release

Hmm … was Tom practically invincible in battle? Is that why he came across as so cock-sure? So then, was Tom the original owner of the green girdle and thus conceived as a ‘fay’ creature? Is that a reasonable possibility? Back in 1934 at his first public release in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, he certainly exhibited powers beyond that of mortals or elven-kind!

I really do not want this thread to descend into a discussion about Bombadil, but a ‘supernatural’ Tom certainly has knowledge about the standing stone and its perilous nature:

“ ‘Don’t you go a-meddling with old stone …’ “.
-The Fellowship of the Ring, In the House of Tom Bombadil

Nevertheless, in the next couple of posts, I will try to outline additional evidence pointing to Tom being of the fay race himself. I will try to be as succinct as possible. However I think a little discussion of such sorts is needed, if readers are to align themselves with perhaps a new/different line of thinking. For beneficially to us - there exist several clues that Tom is connected to Tara of legend. This may help us in the road to understanding why Tolkien included the standing stone. Because, it seems to me that textually much unrealized substructure exists behind this segment of the tale - knowledge of which will help fill a void, and make the Barrow-downs episode all the more satisfying.

08-28-2025, 01:30 PM	#10
Priya Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 15	Hello Huinesoron I quite understand how your personal experience of the Downs in actual English counties left a deep impact. Deep enough that it ought to have had a memorable effect on Tolkien too. So, I agree, it would not be at all surprising if his personal vision for the novel’s localized countryside followed suit. Nevertheless, now that we have an inkling that one particular hill of our tale has a decent connection to Ireland’s Tara - it’s worthwhile contemplating whether other links can be uncovered. But firstly, from my previous post - I much prefer to explore links to ‘fairies’ of the ‘fairy mound’. One idea I get from TLotR text is an underlying picture of little legendary creatures beneath a mushroom: “The fog rolled up to the walls and rose above them, and as it mounted it bent over their heads until it became a roof: they were shut in a hall of mist whose central pillar was the standing stone.” – The Fellowship of the Ring, Fog on the Barrow-downs The Intruder, John Anster Fitzgerald, 1860 Do any other readers get the same kind of notion come to their minds? And then does Tom and Goldberry’s cavorting around the dining table leave an impression of fairies dancing in a circular fashion? “… in some fashion they seemed to weave a single dance, neither hindering the other, in and out of the room, and round about the table; …”. - The Fellowship of the Ring, In the House of Tom Bombadil In combination, is that the sort of impression Tolkien wanted to leave? Was his tale meant to be the origin of our world’s superstitions about ‘fairy rings’ and connected folklore to mushrooms? A Mushroom Ring - A Natural Phenomenon Pondering deeper on fairy connections, we also have the Sir Gawain and the Green Knight tale - where Lord Bertilak (and presumably his wife) are: “… fay-magic folk …”,  – ‘Sir Gawain and the Green Knight’, W.P. Ker Lecture Paper Central to that fairy-story is the hollow hill of the Green Chapel and the lady’s ownership of a ‘green girdle’. It is a magical item which will protect its possessor from any deadly or injurious blow: “For whoever goes girdled with this green riband, while he keeps it well clasped closely about him, there is none so hardy under heaven that to hew him were able; for he could not be killed by any cunning of hand.” – ‘Sir Gawain and the Green Knight’, W.P. Ker Lecture Paper, 1953 Beyond coincidence is Tom’s remarkable possession of one too! “green were his girdle and his breeches all of leather;”.  – The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, 1962 release Hmm … was Tom practically invincible in battle? Is that why he came across as so cock-sure? So then, was Tom the original owner of the green girdle and thus conceived as a ‘fay’ creature? Is that a reasonable possibility? Back in 1934 at his first public release in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, he certainly exhibited powers beyond that of mortals or elven-kind! I really do not want this thread to descend into a discussion about Bombadil, but a ‘supernatural’ Tom certainly has knowledge about the standing stone and its perilous nature: “ ‘Don’t you go a-meddling with old stone …’ “. -The Fellowship of the Ring, In the House of Tom Bombadil Nevertheless, in the next couple of posts, I will try to outline additional evidence pointing to Tom being of the fay race himself. I will try to be as succinct as possible. However I think a little discussion of such sorts is needed, if readers are to align themselves with perhaps a new/different line of thinking. For beneficially to us - there exist several clues that Tom is connected to Tara of legend. This may help us in the road to understanding why Tolkien included the standing stone. Because, it seems to me that textually much unrealized substructure exists behind this segment of the tale - knowledge of which will help fill a void, and make the Barrow-downs episode all the more satisfying.