[Elvellon]

Thanks for the reply, Findegil. It has been a while!

Originally Posted by Findegil

NE-KE-00.2 & NE-KE-00.3: For me the change of order is necessary. And I agree that we must alter the statement that Marach led his people over the mountains. I would simply change "NE-KE-00.3{over}[around] the mountains" and later "{came down}[follwed] the Dwarfe-road"

That works, but I'd like to offer an alternative revision that I personally think works better, but I understand if it's too drastic:

§13. Soon after the departure of Felagund the other Men of whom Bëor had spoken came also into Beleriand. First came NE-KE-0.2 <Moved up Marach[,] {led}[leading] his people{ over the Mountains}NE-KE-0.5<DM up from southward{, and two others of much the same strength followed before the fall of the year}.<Moved up They had crossed Eriador and reached the eastern feet of {the Mountains (}Ered Lindon{) a year or more ahead of all others}, but had not attempted to find any passes, and had turned away seeking a road round the Mountains, which, as their horsed scouts reported, grew ever lower as they went southwards.> {and they}[They] were a tall and warlike folk, and they marched in [three] ordered {companies}[hosts]; and the Green-elves hid themselves and did not waylay them. They were a {more }numerous people; each host was as great as all the Folk of Bëor, and they were better armed and equipped; also they possessed many horses, and some asses and small flocks of sheep and goats.>

I swapped the order of the two sentences from DM to make it clearer why the came up southwards instead of over the mountains like Beor's people. I don't think we need to say they were a "more" numerous people, because the "more" was originally meant to relate to the nearby description of Beor's folk as "a small people" two sentences earlier in DM.

Here is the plain text version:

Soon after the departure of Felagund the other Men of whom Bëor had spoken came also into Beleriand. First came Marach, leading his people up from southward. They had crossed Eriador and reached the eastern feet of Ered Lindon, but had not attempted to find any passes, and had turned away seeking a road round the Mountains, which, as their horsed scouts reported, grew ever lower as they went southwards. They were a tall and warlike folk, and they marched in three ordered hosts; and the Green-elves hid themselves and did not waylay them. They were a numerous people; each host was as great as all the Folk of Bëor, and they were better armed and equipped; also they possessed many horses, and some asses and small flocks of sheep and goats.

ROS Note13:

Originally Posted by Findegil

But with Beor's folk leaving the Sea of Rhûn before the Folk of Marach, I don't see why this should be changed. On the long, long way through the wide regions Rhavanion and Eriador many a change of possition could take place without any of two people recognising it.

Sure, I can see that being logically true, but why would Beor mention that they passed Marach on the road if we are meant to imagine "many a change of position" along the way? It seems to me that Tolkien was originally describing what he saw as one position change: Marach was "before [Beor] on the westward march" but they were slow, so Beor passed them. Over time, the westward march of the Atani became more complex in Tolkien's mind, to where he eventually pushed back the date of awakening, but by adding in that detail from DM and Ros, Beor's statement about passing Marach seems unnatural, and we therefore are put in a position of trying to rationalize it.

This brings up another issue that just occured to me.

We have Beor telling Felagund that the Haladin, who are "a people of a different speech", are "awaiting tidings before they venture further". If they are now "strangers to the other Atani, speaking an alien language" (as described in DM), then it raises the question: from whom and how would these tidings come? What's more, by including the DM material, they no longer seem to cross into Beleriand a result of tidings anyway. They just come over secretly in small parties the following year.

In my opinion, the Haladin "awaiting tidings" from Beor's folk only makes sense when they were originally "a people that speak the same tongue". When Christopher swapped the two folks in the Silmarillion based on his father's "late and very express statements", he should have removed the part about them awaiting tidings.