[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

You make the claim in a previous post that the Balrogs followed Morgoth "robotically". Funny thing, a Balrog wisely fleeing the imprisonment of his master, like another Maia, Sauron. One would think a robot would have laid down its life for its master, rather than running and hiding. That would indicate to me a being with a will of its own, and completely uninterested in sharing his master's fate.

Pardon the confusion about Robotically. That word tends to carry a different connotation for me (and those with whom I most regularly use the term) than is typically used, and I used it without thinking of the context.

The word was not meant to imply the Balrogs have no Will, only that they are rigorously faithful to a set of operational principles.

It's also interesting that you make the assumption that the One Ring would be radically different in the hands of one set of Maia as it would be wielded by another, as if the E and the G would make much of a difference if the Ring was presented to one or the other. It's true the only Evil characters seeking the Ring were the Nazgul and they were already in thrall to the One Ring, and so do not count in the equation. I would say that, given the information we do have, that the Ring is inherently addictive, so much so that Saruman the Maia became obsessed by it without even seeing or touching it. And I think its fairly clear in the story that if he found the Ring he would not be handing it to Sauron.

No, not radically different in the hands of one set of Maia as it would be "wielded" by another.

My point is that the Balrog would have No interest in wielding it at all. Much like Faramir, or Gandalf.

Because the Operational Principles under which the Balrogs act is to maximize the Power of their Master(s) (being Morgoth and Sauron).

And the One Ring in their possession would not maximize that power, it would diminish it.

This is an area where there is some contention regarding the nature of the One Ring. And I think that the movie tends to act to a great deal in propagating that contention by treating the One Ring as if it were some overwhelming addictive force against which all were immediately (instead of ultimately) powerless.

Even Frodo only used the One Ring three times, and all the while he remained Faithful to the cause of destroying it, right up to the Ultimate Act itself, where he failed.

The Balrog is going to have different motivations from people like Saruman, or Sauron, whom Tolkien depicted as Fully Realized Agents, rather than the subservient Elemental manifestation of Horror, Terror, Fire, and Darkness that are the Balrogs.

In that respect, the One Ring seems to mostly Corrupt Good, while Furthering the goals of Evil. The Balrog isn't "Good." It begins as "Evil" (already Corrupted, AGES LONG SINCE Corrupted).

The One Ring manifests through corrupting the motivations of People who seek to claim it, or use it.

Thus the Balrog has two things going for it that make the One Ring's relationship to the Balrog different:

1) The Motivations of the Balrog are not to Dominate and Control (which is what Sauron poured of his Will into the One Ring).
2) The Balrog is already Corrupted. It is already going to seek out what will maximize Evil.

Here's an interesting question: do you think if Morgoth returned to Middle-earth and Sauron was in possession of the Ring, would he, at the end of the 3rd Age, surrender it to Morgoth?

Nope, because:

1) Morgoth doesn't seek to Dominate other Peoples. He seeks to Dominate the Fabric of Reality, and to Create in his own Right. It is a pity that Morgoth's Ring isn't digital, because this is one Aspect of Morgoth that Tolkien himself spelled out (and having a digital copy would allow me to do a quick search for the Quote - I am in the process of re-reading it right now, and will eventually discover that quote. I will be sure to post it in this thread when I find it).

This does not mean that Morgoth is wholly uninterested in Enslaving the Children of Ilúvatar. Only that this interest is itself not his Primary Interest. It is merely subservient to his Primary Goal of Dominating Arda itself. Morgoth seems to have left the Nuts-and-Bolts of Temporal Power to Sauron. Again, somewhere in Morgoth's Ring there is a quote by Tolkien to this effect, and I will locate it within the next few days (making a note to myself to make a note of it here when i locate it).

2) Morgoth doesn't need a Firecracker when he has the equivalent of Nuclear Weapons. Again, from Morgoth's Ring (only this time I have the Quote); p. xi.:

. . . for this reason have I chosen Morgoth's Ring as the title of this book. It derives from a passage in my father's essay 'Notes on motives in the Silmarillion' (pp. 394 ff.), in which he contrasted the nature of Sauron's power, concentrated in the One Ring, with that of Morgoth, enormously greater, but dispersed or disseminated into the very matter of Arda: 'the whole of Middle-earth was Morgoth's Ring'.

[Emphasis Mine]

The One Ring has an overblown reputation in this sense, in that people seem to thing that it is the Ultimate Power for Evil in Middle-earth. Morgoth is that Ultimate Power. Morgoth IS SATAN.

Yet to Morgoth, the One Ring would be a trinket; a bauble made by one of his Servants, which itself is made of the Substance of Morgoth's Ring. Satan does not need to usurp the devices of his Servants. Doing so would diminish them, and thus Satan himself.

So, again, the One Ring would be best used to/for Morgoth's Ends in the hands of Sauron... Not in the hands of Morgoth himself. Morgoth would not seek to diminish the power of his Agents and Servants to act on his behalf. And that is what (pointlessly) taking the One Ring from Sauron would do.

And... Yes, I am aware that Tolkien said that Sauron had grown in power since the end of the First Age. But the Writings in Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels post-date the Writing of The Lord of the Rings. And they remain consistent in Pointing out that Morgoth remains the (Ultimate) Source of ALL Evil within Arda (and Ëa).

In Metaphysical terms, the mass of his Fëa (and thus Evil) is tremendous compared to that of Sauron, even with some sort of amplifying property of the One Ring for Sauron's Fëa (and thus Evil).

MB