Quote:
Originally Posted by denethorthefirst
The Rammas Echor was built with "great labour" after "Ithilien fell under the shadow" of the Enemy. BTW: "Shadow" doesnt necessarily have to mean "Loss of Ithilien" or even "Attack", it could also mean that Ithilian was (or felt) threatened (Ithilien was under threat during the Wainrider-Wars!).
Because of the massive scope of the wall and the fact that it was crumbling in some parts before the war of the Ring i think that it was built rather earlier than later in the history of Gondor, when that country was still somewhat strong and in a position to plan and build architectural structures of near numenorean proportions. The earliest date would be III 2002 after the fall of Minas Ithil, the King probably thought it would be good for morale. However i think the likeliest date would be sometime after 2475 when the black uruks first appeared and swiftly conquered Ithilien and (East)Osgiliath. This sudden crushing defeat after over four-hundred years of peace must have come as quite a shock: a massive victorious army was at the doorsteps of the capital and a wall around the surroundings and farmlands of Minas Tirith might have been necessary to stop Raiding Bands and Scouts and to at least delay a potential invading army. Gondor also didnt win back Ithilien overnight but fought a long war to reconquer the country, and even after the final victory ithilien was certainly far from completely safe. Maybe the now deserted Osgiliath provided the building material for the wall (that would explain how an already decaying Gondor could build such a massive structure)?
Gondor was modeled after the Byzantine Empire and we have a Real-World version of the Rammas in the Anastasian Wall ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasian_Wall ), a large wall several kilometers west of Constantinopel built in the 6th. century by an Empire in Crisis for pretty much the same reasons as the Rammas: to deter the barbarians, to deflect small incursions and to at least delay large armies with siege equipment till the defense of the capital was ready. |
Interesting thoughts, denethorthefirst. There certainly seems to be a wide range of opinion as to
when the Rammas was built. The earliest date, as you point out, would have been after the fall of Minas Ithil (2002). A popular date on this thread is 2901, but I have seen other sources suggesting as late as 2954. I have also read at the
Encylopedia of Arda that Tolkien in his unused detailed index for LOTR said that it was built during Denethor's reign ... which would mean after 2984! Unless Tolkien meant
Denethor I ... who was reigning in 2475 when Osgiliath fell. Actually, when you think about it, that makes a lot of sense.
The difficulty with the later dates (as you imply) is that parts of the wall were already falling into ruin by 3018. Another thing in favour of an earlier date is the amount of manpower required to build a 30 mile long wall (let alone man it). By 3018 we see that there is probably insufficient manpower to even attend to many of the ruined sections ... so would there really have been enough manpower to build the Rammas one hundred years earlier?
It does seem odd to think of the wall being partially ruined so soon after it was built, whether in 2901, 2954 or after 2984. On the other hand, if the wall was built shortly after 2475, then a partly ruined wall some 500 or so years later seems much more likely.