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jallanite · 07-19-2014, 07:49 PM

That is a truly excellent first post, denethorthefirst. Your English is excellent. The only oddity I note is your rendering quotations by „this” rather than by “this” or "this" or ‘this’ or 'this'.

That Elves and Dwarves never fell for the rings is a gross exaggeration. Tolkien indeed is chary in what he tells of the exact powers of the rings and the One Ring, but tells more than you indicate. His chief telling is in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter 131, in which Tolkien writes (bolding by me):

The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. ‘change’ viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural power of a possessor – thus approaching ‘magic’, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron (‘the Necromancer’: so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the visible world visible.

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them.

Sauron did not gain the three Rings only because their possessors removed them and did not use them again until the One Ring was lost to Sauron when Sauron’s finger with the Ring was cut off by Isildur, and then the One Ring vanished when Isildur was seemingly slain.

Tolkien writes of the Dwarven rings in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK:

For the Dwarves had proved untameable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring to live either longer or shorter because of it.

The Rings were by some means used by the Dwarves to increase their wealth. J. R. R. Tolkien writes in “The Rings of Power and the Third Age”, the last essay by him in the published Silmarillion, in a passage mentioning Sauron’s rings: “It is said that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring”. Tolkien also relates of the Dwarf-king Thrór and his Ring in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK:

Years afterwards Thrór, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings, and then he went away with one old companion only, called Nár. Of the Ring he said to Thráin at their parting:

‘This may prove the foundation of a new fortune for you yet, though that seems unlikely. But it needs gold to breed gold.’

Tolkien also notes, through Gandalf, in the chapter “The Shadow of the Past” in Fellowship, that the One Ring is practically indestructible and cannot be harmed by heat sufficient to melt ordinary gold. But lesser heat will make visible an inscription engraved on the One Ring and the flames of Mount Doom where the Ring was forged would be sufficient to destroy the Ring.

The visionary scenes which Frodo sees from Amon Hen appear to be in part derived from Frodo’s increased Ring-induced sensitivity. That also puts Frodo in peril when Sauron almost sees him because Frodo is wearing the Ring. Fortunately this increased sensitivity also allows Gandalf to warn Frodo, I presume through connection to the lesser Ring Narya which the tale later reveals Gandalf has been secretly wearing all the time.

Tolkien also implies that Sam’s telepathic connection to the nearby Orcs is through the power of the Ring which Sam is wearing. When Sam encountered an Orc in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and grabbed the Ring, Sam appeared to the Orc as a powerful warrior cloaked in shadow holding “some nameless menace of power and doom.” When Gollum first attacks Frodo on Mount Doom, Sam sees Frodo as a vision of “a figure robed in white… [and] it held a wheel of fire.”

Tolkien then writes:

Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice.

‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.’

The crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes, and yet at the same time insatiable desire.

This is seen by many readers, including myself, as a Ring-backed potential curse of Gollum which Gollum then brings on himself when he attacks Frodo again.

In short the tale and Tolkien’s comments on it show various powers ascribed to the One Ring beyond the compass of your narrow definition. Tolkien writes openly that the Ruling Ring could control the power of the other Rings so that “its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them.”

During Sauron’s first reign as Ring Lord the Elves escaped being controlled by the One Ring only by avoiding all use of the three Lesser Rings. Sauron only dominates the Elven Rings by your trick of counting not using at all as dominating. I don’t count avoiding entirely as being the same as dominating. At the same time it is clear that Sauron could not use the Dwarves as supernatural wraiths, but it seems that seven Dwarf kings were at his beck and call, perhaps along with much of their people who would not mostly be aware that their kings had become puppets. Think of Théoden before he was cured by Gandalf, only far more dominated.

07-19-2014, 07:49 PM	#21
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	That is a truly excellent first post, denethorthefirst. Your English is excellent. The only oddity I note is your rendering quotations by „this” rather than by “this” or "this" or ‘this’ or 'this'. That Elves and Dwarves never fell for the rings is a gross exaggeration. Tolkien indeed is chary in what he tells of the exact powers of the rings and the One Ring, but tells more than you indicate. His chief telling is in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter 131, in which Tolkien writes (bolding by me): The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. ‘change’ viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural power of a possessor – thus approaching ‘magic’, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron (‘the Necromancer’: so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the visible world visible. The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them. Sauron did not gain the three Rings only because their possessors removed them and did not use them again until the One Ring was lost to Sauron when Sauron’s finger with the Ring was cut off by Isildur, and then the One Ring vanished when Isildur was seemingly slain. Tolkien writes of the Dwarven rings in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK: For the Dwarves had proved untameable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring to live either longer or shorter because of it. The Rings were by some means used by the Dwarves to increase their wealth. J. R. R. Tolkien writes in “The Rings of Power and the Third Age”, the last essay by him in the published Silmarillion, in a passage mentioning Sauron’s rings: “It is said that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring”. Tolkien also relates of the Dwarf-king Thrór and his Ring in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK: Years afterwards Thrór, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings, and then he went away with one old companion only, called Nár. Of the Ring he said to Thráin at their parting: ‘This may prove the foundation of a new fortune for you yet, though that seems unlikely. But it needs gold to breed gold.’ Tolkien also notes, through Gandalf, in the chapter “The Shadow of the Past” in Fellowship, that the One Ring is practically indestructible and cannot be harmed by heat sufficient to melt ordinary gold. But lesser heat will make visible an inscription engraved on the One Ring and the flames of Mount Doom where the Ring was forged would be sufficient to destroy the Ring. The visionary scenes which Frodo sees from Amon Hen appear to be in part derived from Frodo’s increased Ring-induced sensitivity. That also puts Frodo in peril when Sauron almost sees him because Frodo is wearing the Ring. Fortunately this increased sensitivity also allows Gandalf to warn Frodo, I presume through connection to the lesser Ring Narya which the tale later reveals Gandalf has been secretly wearing all the time. Tolkien also implies that Sam’s telepathic connection to the nearby Orcs is through the power of the Ring which Sam is wearing. When Sam encountered an Orc in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and grabbed the Ring, Sam appeared to the Orc as a powerful warrior cloaked in shadow holding “some nameless menace of power and doom.” When Gollum first attacks Frodo on Mount Doom, Sam sees Frodo as a vision of “a figure robed in white… [and] it held a wheel of fire.” Tolkien then writes: Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice. ‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.’ The crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes, and yet at the same time insatiable desire. This is seen by many readers, including myself, as a Ring-backed potential curse of Gollum which Gollum then brings on himself when he attacks Frodo again. In short the tale and Tolkien’s comments on it show various powers ascribed to the One Ring beyond the compass of your narrow definition. Tolkien writes openly that the Ruling Ring could control the power of the other Rings so that “its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them.” During Sauron’s first reign as Ring Lord the Elves escaped being controlled by the One Ring only by avoiding all use of the three Lesser Rings. Sauron only dominates the Elven Rings by your trick of counting not using at all as dominating. I don’t count avoiding entirely as being the same as dominating. At the same time it is clear that Sauron could not use the Dwarves as supernatural wraiths, but it seems that seven Dwarf kings were at his beck and call, perhaps along with much of their people who would not mostly be aware that their kings had become puppets. Think of Théoden before he was cured by Gandalf, only far more dominated.