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Ivriniel · 03-22-2014, 11:44 PM

also......

The text bearing this title is a short and hasty outline, very roughly composed, which nonetheless is almost the sole narrative source for the events in the West of Middle-earth up to the defeat and expulsion of Sauron from Eriador in the year 1701 of the Second Age. Other than this there is little beyond the brief and infrequent entries in the Tale of Years, and the much more generalised and selective accounts in Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age (published in The Silmarillion) p. 234, UT

Which goes to Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, UT.

Important, as it is latter text. Add in this:

The text is much emended, and it is not always possible to see what belongs to the time of composition of the manuscript and what is indefinitely later. This is the case with those references to Amroth that make him the son of Galaddriel and Celeborn; but whenever these references were inserted, I think it is virtually certain that this was a new construction, later than the writing...p. 234

of the LotR.

That is, Tolkien appears to have added the Amroth thing and his sister as Celebrian, after LotR was published. I guess/believe he did so coz he was going to backflush Amroth and retrofit him in a new lineage and place in the histories....(honestly, I had to read this stuff about Galadriel, like 500,000 times. Not exaggerating - not

I remember first encountering it all in 1980 and wanting to rip every hair off my head. By the time you get into V3 of Galadriel, the head starts to spin on the head, and the mouth starts vomiting tacks and goo (remember Linda Blair anyone?).

I'm glad I ploughed through. I have fixed a big mess in my head up......34 years later

The Amroth stuff is v. messy. Seems that by 1969 (earth time

), he's dumped as bro to Celebrian....Chris refers to The Battle of Dagorlad and Amdir as Amroth's dad.....*though*....the older Galadriel and Celeborn essay *was* modified, late. So, while Amroth/Amdir/Dagorlad/3rd millennium SA was written *later*, there were mods to the older script. Chris goes on to say (UT, p. 244) that he's not sure what was going to happen to Amroth, with implications for the bloodline to Galadriel and Celeborn.....possibly.

03-22-2014, 11:44 PM	#50
Ivriniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 430	also...... The text bearing this title is a short and hasty outline, very roughly composed, which nonetheless is almost the sole narrative source for the events in the West of Middle-earth up to the defeat and expulsion of Sauron from Eriador in the year 1701 of the Second Age. Other than this there is little beyond the brief and infrequent entries in the Tale of Years, and the much more generalised and selective accounts in Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age (published in The Silmarillion) p. 234, UT Which goes to Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, UT. Important, as it is latter text. Add in this: The text is much emended, and it is not always possible to see what belongs to the time of composition of the manuscript and what is indefinitely later. This is the case with those references to Amroth that make him the son of Galaddriel and Celeborn; but whenever these references were inserted, I think it is virtually certain that this was a new construction, later than the writing...p. 234 of the LotR. That is, Tolkien appears to have added the Amroth thing and his sister as Celebrian, after LotR was published. I guess/believe he did so coz he was going to backflush Amroth and retrofit him in a new lineage and place in the histories....(honestly, I had to read this stuff about Galadriel, like 500,000 times. Not exaggerating - not I remember first encountering it all in 1980 and wanting to rip every hair off my head. By the time you get into V3 of Galadriel, the head starts to spin on the head, and the mouth starts vomiting tacks and goo (remember Linda Blair anyone?). I'm glad I ploughed through. I have fixed a big mess in my head up......34 years later The Amroth stuff is v. messy. Seems that by 1969 (earth time ), he's dumped as bro to Celebrian....Chris refers to The Battle of Dagorlad and Amdir as Amroth's dad.....though....the older Galadriel and Celeborn essay was modified, late. So, while Amroth/Amdir/Dagorlad/3rd millennium SA was written later, there were mods to the older script. Chris goes on to say (UT, p. 244) that he's not sure what was going to happen to Amroth, with implications for the bloodline to Galadriel and Celeborn.....possibly. Last edited by Ivriniel; 03-23-2014 at 12:15 AM.