[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

I'm comfortable with the idea.

But there's, as you point out, still the question of Mithrelas, who was with Imrazor, very Numenorean was he, and with him long enough to bear him Galador (male, the founder of the Line of the Princes of Dol Amroth) and Gimith ('star-mist' a really beautiful Elvish name. We never found out what happened to her, and how many children, and to whom she bore them. But with that kind of beauty, and in realm where there was a strain of Numenorean, I would hazard that she did have children, and noble ones).

We also know that Nandorin (certainly, in the First Age, in accounts suggesting refugees from Beleriand dwelt there) and Sylvan Elves lived for a long time around the region, and into the Second Age at least, in their harbour of Edhellond. There's mention of Amroth and Galadriel having either dwelt, or passed through there. Galadriel is mentioned as having taken refuge there during the War of Elves and Sauron. In fact, there is suggestion of an Elven presence into the Third Age, and materials suggest that Elves did, indeed, depart by the Straight Road to Valinor from Edhellond. As noted by Legolas in LotR, in conversation with Imrahil, who he saw as having ties to his own realm. Given all this, a blending of Elves and Men was likely for their close cohabitation.

It is long since the people of Nimrodel left the woodlands of Lórien, and yet still one may see that not all sailed from Amroth's haven west over water. (Legolas to Imrahil)

Mithrellas, was Sylvan, and had been in the company of Nimrodel (Amroth, son of Amdir's beloved, with all that stuff about tossing himself into the sea when Nimrodel vanished).

The union of Mithrellas and Imrazor and implications for the Choice of the Peredhil here is unclear. Given Mithrellas's disappearance, shortly after her children were born, there seems little opportunity for any of her children to have chosen an immortal life. Further, given her Sylvan heritage, her ties to Valinor were never made, and, perhaps, that has something to do with this as well.

This would mean ignoring the early stories about Mandos' decree.

All those with mortal blood are mortal unless granted exception. The children of Imrazor would have mortal blood and not being granted any leeway would be mortal. I don't see why there would be any confusion.

Not quite right--even though it's from a Letter. The Line of Elros (beyond Elros, who lived 500 years) did steadily increase until the noontide of Numenor. The dwindling occurred in Middle Earth, and with Aragorn (190) he reckoned at about half the span of Elros's line at the noontide. He did, however, have a full longevity as gifted to the mainstream folk of Numenor at the noontide--thrice that of normal men.




This stuff is good and I am comfortable with it. (I dunno, Tolkien's own letters sometimes just don't square with what he, himself wrote, in LotR! See prior comments)

Tolkien often changed his mind and redrafted things, sometimes he made mistakes and other times he wanted to put out two different versions.

Yes. Though as I said--the Arwen anomaly, therefore, implications for the Choice of the Peredhil--more broadly.

Arwen is not an anomaly, because we are the only account we have of the decree says this.

Now all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; but in this matter the power of doom is given to me.

Arwen and the twins were granted 'other doom'. Not so with the children of Imrazor so they would remain mortal.

I'm not sure about this (see Legolas's comment, upstream) and there is a second account, but only of Imrzor, whose presence at Dol Amroth was founded by Elendil's blessing, not bloodline.

Whether some of the daughters of Gondor married Imrahil's line is unclear. We don't have details of that. I'd have imagined that (given Silmarien's founding of the Line of the Faithful in Numenor--the entire premise was that female bloodlines were just as valid), I'd have imagined, that after Earnil, they had a really good look at Dol Amroth for progenitors of the throne.

Well Perandur killed any chance of the Council accepting someone through the female line when he said Gondor only accepts Salic Succession. Firiel and her descendants would have the best claim in this case.

As for Legolas' comments he could just be mistaking High Numenorean descent with recent elvish ancestry. Legolas is not well traveled to Gondor and knows little of what they were like in their height. Aragorn himself when dressed up looked more like an Elf Lord than any mortal man.

I personally tend to favour Tolkien's other version where the Princes of Dol Amroth were Elendil's kin. They were a House that kept their blood very pure and lived more in tune with the Elvish lifestyle.

This view would help explain their position as the highest nobility in Gondor. If they were close relatives to Elendil, then it would make sense for him to make them princes. This also parallels Aragorn making Faramir a prince.

Not only that, but we here Finrod mention how Elf/Man unions would not be permitted often by history, unless for some great doom. Imrazor and Mithrellas was not for some great doom. I am also suspicious that an Elf would abandon her children so readily.

Prince Imrahil to me is an example of Numenor at it's height where the Men were indistinguishable from elves.