[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Galin

Well I could say something similar concerning your opinions For example...



... why assume the 7 foot reference is not accurate? I could say the statements are not in accord unless you want Tolkien to be speaking so generally that when he writes 7 feet for both Isildur and Elendil he really imagines Elendil 10 inches taller [!], with the reason to think so being some description he may not have even remembered at the time, or may have been purposely revising.

There is no indication in the passage concerned that Elendil is taller than 7 feet. And I note Hammond and Scull's presentation of the two accounts in their Reader's Companion to The Lord of the Rings [see Numenoreans in the index, the first reference here is to the 'rangar account' published posthumously in Unfinished Tales]:

My first point is that when people use a generic 6ft and in this case 7ft it is rarely to be taken as an accurate reference, especially when talking about two people. In this very case we know Isildur and Elendil were different heights, because Elendil is mentioned as the tallest man to have survived the downfall of Numenor. Secondly we know the Hobbits are called Halflings, because they were roughly half the size of Numenoreans. If the average height of the Nuemnoreans was 7ft then how could Elendil gain the nickname the Elendil the tall if he was 7ft too?

In one place he makes a rough note about a picture on general height. In the other he gives an exact height, supported by other published material.

And then they quote the seven feet tall description. Well, when I note a given idea and then plan to introduce a seeming contradiction, or at least a reasonably arguable one, I use 'but, however' as well.

And in my interpretation of Tolkien's reaction to the artwork of Pauline Baynes I do not say, of course, that Tolkien meant every Elda was exactly 6 foot 6.

I was talking about Elendil and Isildur both being 7ft, when the context and evidence we have from other sources shows this must be a general description.

Tolkien never in that paragraph describes 6'6 as being a standard or even an average height. It's a general minimum height.

That's not what Tolkien wrote in any case, in the passage I interpreted above.

In the paragraph quoted, Tolkien is not talking about an average height for Eldar men and women.

He first gives the general minimum height for women, which is 6'0. No where is it indicated that the average for a male is 6'6.

In more than one account Tolkien goes into detail about the Numenoreans being around 7ft tall on average.

the Hobbits of the Shire were in height between three and four feet, never less and seldom more. They did not of course call themselves Halflings; this was a Numenorean name for them. It evidently referred to their height in comparison with Numenorean men and was approximately accurate when given.-UT


but he (Elendil) was said to be 'more than man-high' by nearly half a ranga; but he was accounted the tallest of all the Numenoreans who escaped the downfall [and indeed was generally known as the tall]

Earlier he tells us that 6'4 was not really an average height for Numenoreans, but a general term and even this was after they had declined in height.

We have a lot of accurate measurements of height given and I don't see why we should dismiss it all for an ambiguous note, which can be read in different ways.