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Old 02-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #1677
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
I just wanted to clarify, because that of course is correct Nice job, Morsul! And, of course, means you can prepare a new riddle for us.

A clarification of the riddle, in case somebody was still wondering about various things:

I wanted to use Bladorthin as an answer. But as you can see, the only thing we know about him is summed up in the single sentence from The Hobbit, where it is said that in the dragon's hoard there were, among other things

Quote:
the spears that were made for the armies of the great King Bladorthin (long since dead), each had a thrice-forged head and their shafts were inlaid with cunning gold, but they were never delivered or paid for
So I thought "okay, I need to have a second speaker, who has something in common with Bladorthin, so that I can put them both into one riddle".

And that basically had to be a) a King, b) whose men were using spears. (I could have also used someone who had something to do with Dwarfs, but since the spears were such a prominent thing in Bladorthin's case, I wanted to shift my focus there, because I was sure people wouldn't remember Bladorthin as "random king who had dealings with Dwarves", but perhaps they could recall the spears, since that was the item in question.)

The missing link I found in the hallucinations by Merry at the barrow:

Quote:
The men of Carn Dûm came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart!
I was actually somewhat surprised that some of you were quoting this really early (G55 was the one who specifically mentioned it and Ardent later quoted it in full), yet then somehow it became completely forgotten. (Not to speak of that the "unnamed king" was rather unnecessary, when the "king of Carn Dûm in the land of Angmar" would have been much easier train of thought... or so I'd think...)

The rest of the riddle narrows down what we know about the two Kings: the time and the place. About the Witch-King, we know (at least as long as he was a King) that he dwelt in Carn Dûm in the land of Angmar, which is in the north (cold), in the mountains (stone) and pretty evil place for sure (dark). As for Bladorthin, we of course have no idea where he was from.

But we can figure out something about when he lived. Note the shifts in the time, which was something Nerwen briefly touched earlier. The first part of the riddle mentions that "long before me, your realm seemed to be". If you check the dates, Angmar has been defeated by the time the Dwarves of Erebor established their kingdom. But the Witch-King himself outlived (or "outdeathed") Bladorthin by quite some time. Hence, in the third part, you find in fact a contradictory statement: by the time the Witch-King meets his fate, "I am long dead". Had somebody noticed this, it might have also possibly helped to figure out something was wrong with the guy who first has a realm "long before" the second guy and then still meets his fate only after the second guy is "long dead".

I think I do not need to mention the prophecy referring to the Witch-King's demise; the "black pit" refers to the Void, or as Gandalf put it: "Go back to the abyss prepared for you!"

So, I must say, yes, I was afraid the riddle was again somewhat obscure (especially Bladorthin), but I was sort of hoping that somebody will recognize the reference to Merry's "possessed vision". And then I just hoped somebody will know Bladorthin. He's sort of an oddity, so there was the chance somebody would just know

But, I think this cooperative brainstorming was really nice to follow here, and I hope you enjoyed it... now, off to Morsul.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
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