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Old 01-29-2013, 05:28 AM   #14
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Galin is right that I based the assumption about marriage of first cousin on The History of Middle-Earth; volume X: Morgoth's Ring; part three: The Later Quenta Silmarillion; chapter II: The second Phase; sub-chapter: Laws and Customs among the Eldar. The context is a comment of the Eldar to revelation of the Valar that as children reborn Elves would take up their fromer marriages in the second life. This fact would restrict the family for the reborn child. After commenting that what the Valar said would mean that the reborn would not be a near kin of his former spouse, the text goes on with the passage I would like to give here more fully:
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For the marriages of the Eldar do not take place between 'close kin'. This again is a matter in which they needed no law or instruction, but acted by nature, though they gave reasons for it later, declaring that it was due to the nature of bodies and the processes of generation; but also to the nature of fear. 'For,' they said, 'fear are also akin, and the motions of love between them, as say between a brother and sister, are not of the same kind as those that make the beginning of marriage.' By 'close kin' for this purpose was meant members of one 'house', especially sisters and brothers. None of the Eldar married those in direct line of descent, nor children of the same parents, nor the sister or brother of either of their parents; nor did they wed 'half-sisters' or 'half-brothers'. Since as has been shown only in the rarest events did the Eldar have second spouses, half-sister or half-brother had for them a special meaning: they used these terms when both of the parents of one child were related to both of the parents of another, as when two brothers married two sisters of another family, or a sister and a brother of one house married a brother and sister of another: things which often occurred. Otherwise 'first cousins', as we should say, might marry, but seldom did so, or desired to do so, unless one of the parents of each were far-sundered in kin.
It is right that Maeglin is the later text, and the passage as it is given in The Silmarillion; part three: Quenta Silamrillion; chapter 16: Of Maeglin was acording to The History of Middle-Earth; volume XI: The War of the Jewels; part three: The Wanderings of Hurin and other Writings not forming Part of the Quenta Silmarillion; chapter III: Maeglin unchanged:
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Thus all seemed well with the fortunes of Maeglin, who had risen to be mighty among the princes of the Noldor, and greatest save one in the most renowned of their realms. Yet he did not reveal his heart: and though not all things went as he would he endured it in silence, hiding his mind so that few could read it, unless it were Idril Celebrindal. For from his first days in Gondolin he had borne a grief, ever worsening, that robbed him of all joy: he loved the beauty of Idril and desired her, without hope. The Eldar wedded not with kin so near, nor ever before had any desired to do so. And however that might be, Idril loved Maeglin not at all; and knowing his thought of her she loved him the less. For it seemed to her a thing strange and crooked in him, as indeed the Eldar ever since have deemed it: an evil fruit of the Kinslaying, whereby the shadow of the curse of Mandos fell upon the last hope of the Noldor. But as the years passed still Maeglin watched Idril, and waited, and his love turned to darkness in his heart. And he sought the more to have his will in other matters, shirking no toil or burden, if he might thereby have power.
Here the laws are not elaborated in such detail as before. The stated fact is simply that Idril and Maeglin are to near akin to marriage each other. Taking the laws given before strictly that would indicat that Idril and Maeglin would have to be 'half-brother' and 'half-sister' meaning that Eol and Elenwe would have been brother and sister, which is of course unfeasable. But the text in Of Maeglin does provide a relativation:
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... The Eldar wedded not with kin so near, nor ever before had any desired to do so. And however that might be, ...
This does for me indicat that the supposed Middle-Earth internal writter of the text might not be as sure of the laws among the Eldar as he has suggested in the sentence before. And the description of how Idril looked at Maeglins desire for her does fit very well with the statment in Laws and Customs:
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Otherwise 'first cousins', as we should say, might marry, but seldom did so, or desired to do so, unless one of the parents of each were far-sundered in kin.
As I sayed beofre, I am a combiner.

Posted by Cellurdur:
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Also I don't think it is correct to associate Malgalad/Amdir with Galadon.
Well, first we have Celeborn as the son of Malgalad/Amdír and as brother of Amroth. Then we have Celeborn as the son of Galadon. You can chose or you can combine. If you chose that Celeborn the son of Galadon, he is no longer the brother Amroth and Amdír will be possibly unconected to the Elwe-Olwe-Elmo-Clan. If you chose Celeborn to be the son of Amdír, he is himself possibly unconected to the Elwe-Olwe-Elmo-Clan, which is gainsiad some were in the Apendizes to LotR. If you combine Galadon becomes another name for Malgalad/Amdír.

About Nimloth escape from the sack of Doriath: This is found in The History of Middle-Earth; volume XI: The War of the Jewels; part three: The Wanderings of Hurin and other Writings not forming Part of the Quenta Silmarillion; chapter V: The Tale of Years:
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506-507. At Yule Dior fought the sons of Feanor on the east marches of Doriath, and was slain. There fell also Celegorn (by Dior's hand) and Curufin and Cranthir. The cruel servants of Celegorn seize Dior's sons (Elrun and Eldun) and leave them to starve in the forest. (Nothing certain is known of their fate, but some say that the birds succoured them, and led them to Ossir.) [In margin: Maidros repenting seeks unavailingly for the children of Dior.] The Lady Lindis escaped with Elwing, and came hardly to Ossir, with the Necklace and the Jewel. Thence hearing the rumour she fled to the Havens of Sirion.
The wife of Dior has as many names as has the father of Celeborn! Here she is called Lindis, earlier she was named Elulin and later Nimloth. (See the year 497 in The Tale of Years and the comments of Christopher Tolkien for a full account of her names.)

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: I am not adamant on my interpretations reached by combination, but at least it is worth seeing if such combining comes to a 'no go' or not. I will have to reread RGEO to refresh what it has to say about Galadriel and the rebellion of the Noldor.

Last edited by Findegil; 01-29-2013 at 05:36 AM.
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