The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - An Unexpected Journey, or the morning after

Kuruharan · 12-22-2012, 09:06 PM

I saw the movie today. I don't want to bore everyone with a recitation of things most everyone has already pointed out in one form or another. Broadly speaking, my impressions are largely in line with Boro's.

I do think it was better than The Two Towers...of course, that is a pretty low bar to get over. It might be better than Return of the King too, it’s been so long since I've seen that one. Personally I'm not sure it’s on par with Fellowship.

I had the sense to see it in 2D so I didn't have to suffer through 3D glasses and weird images so just from a sheer image perspective there was only one place where the movie just looked blatantly fake to me and that was Ian Holm's makeup during the beginning of the movie, which in my opinion looked *really* bad.

Other stuff I feel to be of note that hasn't been mentioned by others very much:

Dale is medieval Novgorod: It’s an interesting idea to dress the Dalemen in Russiany type garb, and I approve of the imagination behind the idea. However, I'm not completely sold on it as they are supposed to be related to the Rohirrim. I think a more Nordic look would have worked better, but I still give them credit for trying.

Making an unnecessary mishmash of the backstory: Believe it or not, I do understand that there is a need to make some changes when one is adapting a book to film. However, there is absolutely no need from a technical perspective to make such a hash of the history. Several references are made to the other dwarf lords and yet at the same time Erebor is called the last dwarf kingdom in Middle-earth. Balin also has his dialogue with Thorin about their new home in the Blue Mountains...except that according to the story these dwarves don't belong anywhere. There are only two possible outcomes for the thinking members of the audience arising from these contradictions. For those unfamiliar with Tolkien's work all this incoherent backstory is just confusing. For those familiar with Tolkien's work it will be annoying at best. Why mention the backstory at all if you are going to make such a mess of it? There is no technical or story based reason for it. And you can't say that it is simplifying and making the complex backstory less confusing. Jackson went and made it *more* confusing by making it incoherent. Why can't he just tell it like Tolkien wrote it if he has to mention it at all?

Troll boogers: Seriously..?

That stupid *stupid* *STUPID* chase to Rivendell: I will say at the beginning that words can't really do justice to how stupid and wrong in just about every way that sequence was. But I'm going to give 'er a go anyway!

1) Radaghasty is riding around on his bunny sled in circles leading the "orc pack" (I cringed every time that phrase was used) around and around to create a diversion so the dwarves could get away...except he is leading the orcs in the SAME FREAKIN' DIRECTION the dwarves themselves are going which is only going to make it more likely that the dwarves are going to be seen! And not only that, he is staying like 50 yards from the dwarves at all times. Seriously?! How is this necessary to adapt the story to film? I understand suspension of disbelief...but this is requiring suspension of any sort of information processing apparatus at all!

2) The wargs are shown in the film as having a sense of smell keen enough to detect the passage of the dwarves at least a day or so after they have been there...and yet somehow these same wargs couldn't smell the dwarves when they were just on the other side of that rock. It took an orc to smell them. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

3) Those fast wargs that only the Rabbits of Rhosghobel could outrun sure took a long time surrounding and closing in on a bunch of dwarves on foot in flat country. Maybe Gandalf knew that the Gundabad wargs were in fact slower than snails and that is why he knew Radaghastly didn't have too be far ahead of the dwarves..?

4) Why in the heck didn't the dwarves follow their own advice to stay close and group up (like they managed to do a few minutes later in Rivendell when surrounded by elves) when they were finally surrounded by the wargs? When Thorin was yelling at everyone to stand their ground they were all dispersed in a wide circle...ideal for being ridden down and killed one by one by mounted opponents. Still its lucky that the wargs were slow as all heck so that Kiligolas had time to trot leisurely across the field to jump down the hole. It would have been such a shame if his beardless face had departed the movie at that moment. (I do understand and appreciate the need to have different beard styles and for the most part the look of the dwarves has really grown on me...but I draw the line at a beardless dwarf. Stubble does not cut it. By the way, did anybody else catch the beardless dwarven women fleeing Erebor, even though all the literature for the film describes the women as bearded...that's literature expressly for the film mind you...obviously nobody cares much about what that chap Tolkien wrote.)

Middle-earth to Bilbo: If you aren't able to keep up with a company of dwarves in the wilderness...I have my doubts that you are going to make it back even to Rivendell by yourself. Call it a hunch. At the very least those rock giants are still out there...like right outside that cave. But go on out there and try buddy! I'm sure that can only end well for you.

Mace in the Face: I sure hope that if I'm ever hit in the face by a mace being swung by a moving mounted person I end up with some cool, artistically placed facial scarring rather than having icky things happen like my neck being immediately snapped or my face being turned into pulp. Artistic scarring is cool and would really help with the ladies. Pulp face...not so much.

Erebor so close to the Misty Mountains: The decision to split The Hobbit into three movies is even more baffling to me now that I see how close to the Misty Mountains Erebor actually is. I mean it’s like fifty miles tops...and probably less. They should get there in three days tops. I am oh so dreading what kind of filler PJ is going to have to come up with to elongate that trip.

Overall Impression: As others have said, I found the movie to do best when PJ and Company are portraying what Tolkien actually wrote. When they start following their own ideas things tend to fall apart in a hurry.

Aside from that, as a film (aside from all my Tolkien based objections) at different parts it felt slow and disjointed to me. It felt slow at the beginning with that intro (especially the part with Ian and Elijah) which felt like it would neeeeeeever end. It felt disjointed from the late intro through the middle (basically with the introduction of Radaghastly). The film tightened up the story toward the end and that portion of the movie was better because of it.

Also, overall I think these movies are not really aimed at people like me. My Dad just loved the whole thing and had a grand time watching the movie. I think the movies are really more for people like him, people who are willing to watch and enjoy what's presented to them and not nitpick. I'm sure he's back home right now watching "Making Of The Hobbit" clips on YouTube and happy as a clam, which is a good thing.

I am kind of dreading what the next movie will hold as Two Towers was so awful...

12-22-2012, 09:06 PM	#18
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	Well, it had dwarves so it obviously possesses some good qualities... I saw the movie today. I don't want to bore everyone with a recitation of things most everyone has already pointed out in one form or another. Broadly speaking, my impressions are largely in line with Boro's. I do think it was better than The Two Towers...of course, that is a pretty low bar to get over. It might be better than Return of the King too, it’s been so long since I've seen that one. Personally I'm not sure it’s on par with Fellowship. I had the sense to see it in 2D so I didn't have to suffer through 3D glasses and weird images so just from a sheer image perspective there was only one place where the movie just looked blatantly fake to me and that was Ian Holm's makeup during the beginning of the movie, which in my opinion looked really bad. Other stuff I feel to be of note that hasn't been mentioned by others very much: Dale is medieval Novgorod: It’s an interesting idea to dress the Dalemen in Russiany type garb, and I approve of the imagination behind the idea. However, I'm not completely sold on it as they are supposed to be related to the Rohirrim. I think a more Nordic look would have worked better, but I still give them credit for trying. Making an unnecessary mishmash of the backstory: Believe it or not, I do understand that there is a need to make some changes when one is adapting a book to film. However, there is absolutely no need from a technical perspective to make such a hash of the history. Several references are made to the other dwarf lords and yet at the same time Erebor is called the last dwarf kingdom in Middle-earth. Balin also has his dialogue with Thorin about their new home in the Blue Mountains...except that according to the story these dwarves don't belong anywhere. There are only two possible outcomes for the thinking members of the audience arising from these contradictions. For those unfamiliar with Tolkien's work all this incoherent backstory is just confusing. For those familiar with Tolkien's work it will be annoying at best. Why mention the backstory at all if you are going to make such a mess of it? There is no technical or story based reason for it. And you can't say that it is simplifying and making the complex backstory less confusing. Jackson went and made it more confusing by making it incoherent. Why can't he just tell it like Tolkien wrote it if he has to mention it at all? Troll boogers: Seriously..? *That stupid stupid* STUPID chase to Rivendell: I will say at the beginning that words can't really do justice to how stupid and wrong in just about every way that sequence was. But I'm going to give 'er a go anyway! 1) Radaghasty is riding around on his bunny sled in circles leading the "orc pack" (I cringed every time that phrase was used) around and around to create a diversion so the dwarves could get away...except he is leading the orcs in the SAME FREAKIN' DIRECTION the dwarves themselves are going which is only going to make it more likely that the dwarves are going to be seen! And not only that, he is staying like 50 yards from the dwarves at all times. Seriously?! How is this necessary to adapt the story to film? I understand suspension of disbelief...but this is requiring suspension of any sort of information processing apparatus at all! 2) The wargs are shown in the film as having a sense of smell keen enough to detect the passage of the dwarves at least a day or so after they have been there...and yet somehow these same wargs couldn't smell the dwarves when they were just on the other side of that rock. It took an orc to smell them. Dumb, dumb, dumb! 3) Those fast wargs that only the Rabbits of Rhosghobel could outrun sure took a long time surrounding and closing in on a bunch of dwarves on foot in flat country. Maybe Gandalf knew that the Gundabad wargs were in fact slower than snails and that is why he knew Radaghastly didn't have too be far ahead of the dwarves..? 4) Why in the heck didn't the dwarves follow their own advice to stay close and group up (like they managed to do a few minutes later in Rivendell when surrounded by elves) when they were finally surrounded by the wargs? When Thorin was yelling at everyone to stand their ground they were all dispersed in a wide circle...ideal for being ridden down and killed one by one by mounted opponents. Still its lucky that the wargs were slow as all heck so that Kiligolas had time to trot leisurely across the field to jump down the hole. It would have been such a shame if his beardless face had departed the movie at that moment. (I do understand and appreciate the need to have different beard styles and for the most part the look of the dwarves has really grown on me...but I draw the line at a beardless dwarf. Stubble does not cut it. By the way, did anybody else catch the beardless dwarven women fleeing Erebor, even though all the literature for the film describes the women as bearded...that's literature expressly for the film mind you...obviously nobody cares much about what that chap Tolkien wrote.) Middle-earth to Bilbo: If you aren't able to keep up with a company of dwarves in the wilderness...I have my doubts that you are going to make it back even to Rivendell by yourself. Call it a hunch. At the very least those rock giants are still out there...like right outside that cave. But go on out there and try buddy! I'm sure that can only end well for you. Mace in the Face: I sure hope that if I'm ever hit in the face by a mace being swung by a moving mounted person I end up with some cool, artistically placed facial scarring rather than having icky things happen like my neck being immediately snapped or my face being turned into pulp. Artistic scarring is cool and would really help with the ladies. Pulp face...not so much. Erebor so close to the Misty Mountains:** The decision to split The Hobbit into three movies is even more baffling to me now that I see how close to the Misty Mountains Erebor actually is. I mean it’s like fifty miles tops...and probably less. They should get there in three days tops. I am oh so dreading what kind of filler PJ is going to have to come up with to elongate that trip. Overall Impression: As others have said, I found the movie to do best when PJ and Company are portraying what Tolkien actually wrote. When they start following their own ideas things tend to fall apart in a hurry. Aside from that, as a film (aside from all my Tolkien based objections) at different parts it felt slow and disjointed to me. It felt slow at the beginning with that intro (especially the part with Ian and Elijah) which felt like it would neeeeeeever end. It felt disjointed from the late intro through the middle (basically with the introduction of Radaghastly). The film tightened up the story toward the end and that portion of the movie was better because of it. Also, overall I think these movies are not really aimed at people like me. My Dad just loved the whole thing and had a grand time watching the movie. I think the movies are really more for people like him, people who are willing to watch and enjoy what's presented to them and not nitpick. I'm sure he's back home right now watching "Making Of The Hobbit" clips on YouTube and happy as a clam, which is a good thing. I am kind of dreading what the next movie will hold as Two Towers was so awful... __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 12-22-2012 at 09:16 PM.