View Single Post
Old 12-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #130
elbenprincess
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
elbenprincess has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
I thought it was obvious from the quote that Cirdan's foresight exceeded EVEN Elrond, Celeborn and Galadriel.. Elrond once again is especially singled out ahead of Celeborn and Galadriel.
I never disagreed about Cirdan, but there is no prove Elrond has the greatest foresight after Cirdan just becase of that:

Quote:
Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him
Again, you have not proven that Elrond is the one with the greater foresight and knowlege in lore than Galadriel, who already was a match for the loremasters in Valinor. It just says that the foresight of his kindred came to him, besides the Maiar, his kindred is also Noldor, Sindar and men.
You just have to look on their actions and you see who is inhernently more powerful.

Quote:
Gondolin was a secret city, that no one was allowed to enter. Galadriel did not visit the place.
Even if she didnīt visit or take part in some of the events, she can see everything that she wants with her mirror, how Beren meat Luthien, how Sauron lost his ring and Gondolin, how it was bilt and destroyed.

Quote:
Yes it has a mark, but we are talking about all lore. The Noldor actually were not as close the Valar as were the Vanyar. They tended to stay in Tirion.
The Noldor in generel were pupil of Aule and furthermore Galadriel is said that she was pupil of Yavanna.

Quote:
Such a mind can learn of the future only from another mind which has seen it. But that means only from Eru ultimately, or mediately from some mind that has seen in Eru some part of His purpose
Still there must be an explanation on why Galadriel is able to see the future via her mirror, something Elrond is not able to do.

Quote:
THERE ARE ONLY 2 CASES only in my legends of such unions, and they are merged in the descendants of Eärendil
That tells us that Arwen and Aragons union was not one of the Eldar and Edain? Arwen is a decendant of Earendil and maybe he just forgot one union, dunno makes no sense for me. Arwen is as much as an elf as Luthien, even more. I donīt know yet what he tries to tell us with the biological differneces, but why should he suddenly come to the conclusion that the Union between Arwen and Aragon was not one of the Eldar and Edain? Because Arwen was one of the Eldar!

Eldar:
Quote:
At first, the name was applied to all Elves, but after the summons of the Valar, it came to be used only of the peoples who followed the summons and began the Great Journey.
The term "Eldar" is applied for those who have seen the two trees, or at least began he journey. Furthermore it seems that the elves inherented it from their ancestors. Thingol, saw the two trees and was therefore an Eldar, Luthien did not see the two tress but was also accounted Eldar, so she inherented that from her father, so Arwen would inherent being one of the Eldar not only from Thingol, but also from Galadriel.

If he is explaning to us that it is biological not possible because they are not so similar as we thought always, then Arwen and Aragon match more then the other unions (because Arwen has more mortal blood than Idril or Luthien).

Quote:
Elrond once again is especially singled out ahead of Celeborn and Galadriel.
Where because of that?:
Quote:
Quote:
Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him
His kindred besides the Maiar are the Noldor and Sindar too, it doesnīt say that he has greater foresight than Galadriel.

Where is Elrond singled ot ahead of Celeborn and Galadriel? Maybe I have overseens omething, but I read no quote that indicates that.

Quote:
Elwing learns to talk to birds and can fly. Have you seen any elf fly?
Yes, but only because of Ulmos help, I gess he could make very elf fly if he wants.

Quote:
Perhaps you should read full the entire quote, before you provide it, because it might actually come back to disproof what you are tempting to proof.
You have a point, I donīt have the letter for me and just saw the passage. But I think that could be a coincedence, he just points out that before leaving for Aman they have to make their choice. Arwen wasnīt even born at that time after the War of Wrath so was Elrond. Iīm sure there are simililar passages, where Tolkien doesnīt make a difference.

Quote:
No that quote just shows he would have eternal life, in the same way Elros would be mortal.
It doesnīt show that he would have eternal life (which he doesnīt have at all, they just have long lifespans) it shows that he Elrond Half-elven, who chose, as was granted to him, to be numbered among the Eldar

I have found this quote:

Quote:
'The passing 'oversea' to Eressea (an isle within sight of Aman) was permitted to, and indeed urged upon, all Elves remaining in Middle-earth after the downfall of Morgoth in Angband.' Morgoth's Ring
I again donīt have the compleate letter but Elrond was urged too, like Gil Galad and Celimbrimbur but they denied, and in that what I see at this point Elrond is not excluded. Like I said, the first quote was coincidence.

Quote:
Boromir was from Gondor and wrong about many things. He had let superstition cloud his judgement. Tolkien's words on reading the mind come after LOTR was published.

sure Boromir was wrong on many things, but Tolkien says through Boromir that she read his thoughts. Even it itīs illegal, itīs possible.

Quote:
Tolkien was influenced by Christianity in his work and one key part of Christianity is that only God can read a person's mind. This is why he went to great pains to clarify the situation after LOTR.
Bt still Tolkiens said
Quote:
No one not even one of the Valar, can read mind of other equal beings
The Valar are not able to read the thoghts of other Valar, but of lesser being, like Elves or Men.

You just have to read the chapter, there is no question if she read their thoughts or not.

Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-16-2012 at 04:15 AM.
elbenprincess is offline   Reply With Quote