[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

This is not Tolkiens view, that´s rather seen through the eyes of Gilraen and Aragon. Gilraen probably never meat Galadriel and therefore can not even judge that and Aragon is biased cause he is talking about his own wife, furthermore Galadriel wast in ME anymore when he aid that.

The quote I provided was Tolkiens general view and not filtered through his characters.

What about Eomer's quote? Besides I have explained and given you lots of information where Tolkien shows the Half-Elven are not included among the Elves.

That is debatable too, I would say Galadriel is more noble, being the daugther of a king (Finarfin), Granddaughter of a king (Olwe) and great niece of two kings (Ingwe and Elwe, if we assume that Elwe held kingship in Aman) Arwen is much more removed. But that´s just me. Arwen has of course the plus being decended from Melian, but for me that doesn´t make her necessarily more noble. Is just Gilraen not knowing better.

Arwen is a descendant of both Earendil and Luthien. The two most beloved, most powerful and most respected out of the Children of Illuvatar. That trumps everything.

I´s like Sam saying for example that Rosie is the fairest in ME, that wold e Sams opinion, bt not neccessarily Tolkiens, or Galadriel saying that Celeborn is the wisest elf in ME, that is her opinion but probably not Tolkiens, cause he once said that abot Cirdan.

Except more than one character says it and they have no reason to be biased. She is also compared to Luthien in looks, the fairest out of all the Children of Illuvatar.

I´m very much aware that Tolkien said that Arwen isn´t an elf but half-elven, I was just trying to explain why I think that both are included in that statement, when Tolkien is talking in general of the third age eldar They are several thousand years old and living among elves. They are more elven than mortal. I think it´s quite obvious, Arwen is even listened as one of the Eldar.

Well there are many reasons why this is not the case.
1. Elrond is called a Elf friend.
"The Master of the house was an elf-friend - one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men of the North.

[Elrond] was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.

"‘And have you marked the brethren Elladan and Elrohir? Less sombre is their gear than the others', and they are fair and gallant as Elf-lords; and that is not to be wondered at in the sons of Elrond of Rivendell.'"

She was genetically not an elf, but still included when generally speaking of them, until she wedded Aragon. With Elrond it´s even more explizcit, even if he´s half-elven, since "he chose to be counted among the Eldar"

No quite the opposite, Tolkien in virtually every panel retains the distinction between Elrond/Elrond's children and true Elves. He is only LIKE or AS an elf lord.

I´m not saying that Finarfin wasn´t wise returning to Valinor or that the other elves were cowards, it´s just that every person has other goals in life (for Galadriel being influential or powerful) and not everyone is content in just singing and writing poetry, but I wouldn´t say that Galadriel was unwise or stupid for going to ME, she had her purpose, without her things may have ended worse.

Galadriel and Feanor are the only elves described as being brilliant, I don´t think that there a dumb elves anyway, but they are seemingly extraordinary in that area, that´s the reason they weren´t content in living in Aman anymore, Galadriel even more than Feanor is seems.
I see nothing bad in her departure, I see a curious, knowlege- (slightly power) hungry "young" women who is looking for responsibility and something important to do. Even if she was looking for power, I don´t understand why some people see that in negative light. It´s the method how someone craves for power which is cruicial and Galadriel wanted always the best for ME, that sets her apart from the likes of Morgoth, Sauron or Saruman. You can have the need for being powerful and still be a good person if you know when you have to stop. Galadriels "stop" was when she refused the ring.

Knowing when to stop is returning when the Valar place a curse on your errand. Finarfin was wise and knew when to stop and that was when the Valar cursed them. This is why Finarfin is the ONLY Noldor Prince/Lady to not inherit the weakness of pride the others did including Finrod and Galadriel.

If she acted perfectly then she would not have received the ban, that all the Noldor had.

In him(Feanor) she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor and upon her own.

I don´t understand, she was not in line for succession, if we go with the version that Gilgalads father was Orodreth (sp?) then the next would be Galadriel, then Celebrian, then first the twins. So Arwen was only queen because she married Aragon, had she not married him, she wouldn´t be the queen of the elves.

No for whatever reason it seems the Noldor had a form of Salic Succession. The throne was only passed to males through a male line. So with the death of Gil-galad not only was there a lack of elves to have a High-King, but there was nobody with a right to the throne anyway.

However, Arwen has right to claim the Queenship through Thingol. That apart the elves did not just accept leaders, because of a birth right. They rejected Finrod, Feanor and Galadriel herself even though they were the rightful rulers by birth. Arwen therefore must have displayed qualities for the elves to except her rule.