View Single Post
Old 11-25-2012, 11:57 AM   #3
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLostPilgrim View Post
Is it possible that the Istari were picked each for his own inborn talents/nature--Perhaps certain aspects of their nature they themselves weren't aware of? Rather than send say one mighty Maia who could aid Men against Sauron, they sent five very different Wizards.
Certainly, I would say. There should be no doubt about this.

Quote:
They all had the same GENERAL mission: Help defend Middle Earth against Sauron. But perhaps they were all meant to fulfill that mission in different ways:

Saruman by using the power of his voice to sway Middle Earth away from Sauron, to guide with his persuasviveness against the Dark Lord.
I would not say "sway". Certainly the Valar did not have any strong persuasion in mind (no "brainwashing", even if it was for a good cause). I would say, if there was any use of the rhetoric skills of Saruman's, then perhaps it might have been to boost morale (like in Gandalf's case) and perhaps to expose and counter the lies and rhetorics of Sauron's emissaries sent to the Free Peoples. That much I can imagine.

But otherwise, I would assume (given what we know) that Saruman's task should have been to search or help those in Middle-Earth to search for wisdom (remember, he was Saruman the Wise, and studied the art of the Enemy in order to be able to counter him, at least in the beginning).

I agree about the rest. Also, I very much agree with the notion of Alfirin's about Radagast being a "backup" to make sure the Wizards remembered the nature in their pursuit of victory (just so that e.g. the Free Peoples, after the successfull moral and intellectual boost from the Istari, would not decide to get rid of Sauron by building an armored tank division produced in huge factories which would pollute all the air and would be supplied by cutting down all the forests in Middle-Earth).

Quote:
And in saying that, I feel maybe Radagast didn't fail in his mission. Perhaps he didn't do as much as Gandalf did, but neither did he do evil, and he did protect, care for and nurture the birds and beasts of Middle Earth, and the things he DID do proved incredibly important to the history of Middle Earth. Were it not for Radagast's message from Saruman, Gandalf might've continued on and not learned of Saruman's fall until it was too late; And in heeding Gandalf's command, he saved Gandalf from being Saruman and as such immeasurably helped the mission.....I think he served his purpose.
As for this, there's been a lengthy debate on this subject on this thread (basically mainly from post #18 onwards for about a page, it's been quite a long, slightly "off-topic track"). My personal view is that he had failed: not in the sense that e.g. Saruman did, as in "fallen", but failed in the sense "failed to accomplish what he had been sent for". As we know, Radagast did very little in the struggle against Sauron and preferred to play with his beasts. Emphasis on this: I'm saying "play", because that's what he did. He did not do it in order to counter Sauron, he simply did it because he enjoyed the company of the beasts and birds, and if he happened to counter some of the Enemy's plans, it was either random (like in the case of Gwaihir rescuing Gandalf from Orthanc), or because he still felt dutiful enough to do something (like delivering the messages to members of the Council). But he showed no initiative of his own.

Sufficient to say, one thing: he did not get a "return ticket" on the Last Ship. Though (as I also have mentioned on that thread I have linked), the question is, if he really wanted to even go back - I would argue that he probably even felt more comfortable staying with all the animals of Middle-Earth and the Valar certainly did not have any reason not to grant him his wish (especially as he didn't do anything that would "earn" him the spot on the ship anyway).

Or, in other words, using one of my posts from that thread (which also touches on the main point of this thread, regarding the "specific missions" of the individual Istari):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
Radagast did not "fall", he did simply "fail". He did not break the glass, he simply failed to fill it, to speak metaphorically. (In such a case, Gandalf alone had managed to fill the glass, while Saruman - how appropriate - broke it; I am not sure what is the status of the Blue in this respect, but Tolkien seemed not to know either, from what we are told - as someone also had cited earlier in this thread.)

But I still argue for this fact that Radagast had a specific mission, which was the same for all the Istari, to help the denizens of Middle-Earth against Sauron, and in Radagast's case, it was specifically with the assumption that he would take special care to protect the nature against Sauron.

If I exaggerate a bit, in order to show how I envision Radagast's ideal behavior, in the ideal state where neither of the Wizards had failed, Radagast would have roused the Woodmen and the Pukel-Men and the fiercest bears and badgers in order to make them defend their homelands. While Saruman and Gandalf would encourage Elves and Men to resist Orcs from the mountains and armies of Mordor, and the Blue Wizards would "enlighten" the Easterlings and make them strong enough to resist the Dark Lord's temptation of their chieftains, then Radagast would counsel and rouse the wildlife of Mirkwood to get rid of the spiders and all sorts of evil things, probably also prevent Ents and huorns to turn to having "black hearts" like Old Man Willow and somesuch.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote