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jallanite · 10-09-2012, 11:29 PM

Tolkien’s first recorded mention of Disney is in May, 1937, a few months before Snow White hit the screens.

Disney was then very much in the media about the film, which most commentators expected to bomb. A cartoon that one was expected to spend 83 minutes watching! It sound like a joke at the time. Most of these commentators had not noticed Disney’s more realistic shorts particularly and many of these were also flawed. The animated film The Old Mill which previewed the new more realistic style had not come out yet. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYEmL0d0lZE . This film is still one of film’s all time landmarks. Yet today it seems rather show-offy and attempts to punch up its story with gags.

Tolkien probably knew Disney as the most well-known producer of animated shorts and his opinions at that time was the common opinion among intellectuals who did not pay much attention to animation. He would have seen cheap Mickey Mouse spin-off books in bookstores which hardly impressed anyone and are now all out of print.

I read somewhere that Tolkien and C. S. Lewis saw Snow White twice. Lewis’ thoughts on the film are given at http://www.andrewrilstone.com/2005/1...lt-disney.html . Lewis had mixed opinions, being very impressed by some of Snow White and disgusted by much of it. Lewis reveals his abysmal ignorance of music by his use of the word jazz, when there is not a jazz passage anywhere in the film.

Lewis’ final comment is posh snobbery:

What might have come of it if the man had been educated — or even brought up in a decent society.

Still, Lewis’ mention of vulgarity in Disney comes out in other, later commentators. The studio’s method of adapting their sources was to gag them up and add musical numbers. Even among those who love the Disney films, there is a strong tendency to see Snow White and Pinocchio as the best and the later films as somewhat or very much dumbed down and weakened compared to their sources.

Peter Jackson’s treatment of Gimli in his films is the kind of thing that many people don’t like in Disney. There is too much added humour. The forced cuteness of Thumper in Bambi is an example which undercuts the possible magnificence of much of the rest of the film. In Cinderella the story is padded out with cat-and-mouse cartoon silliness. Disney’s Jungle Book is a yet another example of that kind of watering down. Also, many of Disney’s best animators left him for opportunities to make their own mark.

But though Tolkien was not a common viewer of cinema, apparently he had seen or heard enough of Disney that he was willing to spend considerable time discussing the possibility of a Lord of the Rings animated film. At that time feature-length animation was almost owned by Disney, as it still is in North America, and people tended to think of animation as the stuff that Disney did. Disney was far bigger than any of his competitors.

Currently the animated films connected with Hayao Miyazaki are in my opinion and the opinions of many others much superior. But whether Myazaki’s Studio Ghibli could do The Hobbit is somewhat dubious. Their adaptation of western fantasy, Tales from Earthsea, supposedly based on Ursula K. LeGuin’s Earthsea tales, was a popular and critical disaster, the only disaster produced by Studio Ghibli. They generally produce their own material or drastically adapt material that they buy from others.

For those unfamiliar with Miyazaki, I present what some have called the greatest sequence in film, the original Japanese version of a quiet musical number from Whisper of the Heart: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkk...ese_shortfilms . There is no Disney-style humour but lots of gentle humour of character if you look at the expressions on the faces of the two performers. The girl Shizuku is at first stiff, shy and embarrassed about performing but gains confidence. She has previously met the old shop-keeper and they have become instant friends, which explains his wink to her.

Here is a sample of Studio Ghibli output from a number of films: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKVUkiorkA . I admit that only highlights presented like this make Miyazaki look somewhat garish. It is the quieter moments that make his films what they are.

There is little that would be called vulgarity and no dancing and singing salt shakers and no musical numbers, except the one I presented and one in My Neighbors the Yamadas.

I was a fan of Disney when a child, but have since turned away from most Disney output. Even as a child I could see that a lot of it offered cheap substitutes for better things. Carl Bark’s Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge tales were two of the exceptions. And there I was puzzled that outside of the comic books the studio seemed not to be interested in presenting what to me was the real Donald or Uncle Scrooge. When Disney Studios did adapt Carl Barks’ Uncle Scrooge stories for the television series Duck Tales, they naturally changed them for the worse and vulgarized them and watered them down.

I suspect Tolkien mostly ignored Disney output as common, vulgar, and silly stuff in which he had no interest.

I entirely agree with Galadriel55’s analysis.

10-09-2012, 11:29 PM	#5
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	Tolkien’s first recorded mention of Disney is in May, 1937, a few months before Snow White hit the screens. Disney was then very much in the media about the film, which most commentators expected to bomb. A cartoon that one was expected to spend 83 minutes watching! It sound like a joke at the time. Most of these commentators had not noticed Disney’s more realistic shorts particularly and many of these were also flawed. The animated film The Old Mill which previewed the new more realistic style had not come out yet. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYEmL0d0lZE . This film is still one of film’s all time landmarks. Yet today it seems rather show-offy and attempts to punch up its story with gags. Tolkien probably knew Disney as the most well-known producer of animated shorts and his opinions at that time was the common opinion among intellectuals who did not pay much attention to animation. He would have seen cheap Mickey Mouse spin-off books in bookstores which hardly impressed anyone and are now all out of print. I read somewhere that Tolkien and C. S. Lewis saw Snow White twice. Lewis’ thoughts on the film are given at http://www.andrewrilstone.com/2005/1...lt-disney.html . Lewis had mixed opinions, being very impressed by some of Snow White and disgusted by much of it. Lewis reveals his abysmal ignorance of music by his use of the word jazz, when there is not a jazz passage anywhere in the film. Lewis’ final comment is posh snobbery: What might have come of it if the man had been educated — or even brought up in a decent society. Still, Lewis’ mention of vulgarity in Disney comes out in other, later commentators. The studio’s method of adapting their sources was to gag them up and add musical numbers. Even among those who love the Disney films, there is a strong tendency to see Snow White and Pinocchio as the best and the later films as somewhat or very much dumbed down and weakened compared to their sources. Peter Jackson’s treatment of Gimli in his films is the kind of thing that many people don’t like in Disney. There is too much added humour. The forced cuteness of Thumper in Bambi is an example which undercuts the possible magnificence of much of the rest of the film. In Cinderella the story is padded out with cat-and-mouse cartoon silliness. Disney’s Jungle Book is a yet another example of that kind of watering down. Also, many of Disney’s best animators left him for opportunities to make their own mark. But though Tolkien was not a common viewer of cinema, apparently he had seen or heard enough of Disney that he was willing to spend considerable time discussing the possibility of a Lord of the Rings animated film. At that time feature-length animation was almost owned by Disney, as it still is in North America, and people tended to think of animation as the stuff that Disney did. Disney was far bigger than any of his competitors. Currently the animated films connected with Hayao Miyazaki are in my opinion and the opinions of many others much superior. But whether Myazaki’s Studio Ghibli could do The Hobbit is somewhat dubious. Their adaptation of western fantasy, Tales from Earthsea, supposedly based on Ursula K. LeGuin’s Earthsea tales, was a popular and critical disaster, the only disaster produced by Studio Ghibli. They generally produce their own material or drastically adapt material that they buy from others. For those unfamiliar with Miyazaki, I present what some have called the greatest sequence in film, the original Japanese version of a quiet musical number from Whisper of the Heart: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkk...ese_shortfilms . There is no Disney-style humour but lots of gentle humour of character if you look at the expressions on the faces of the two performers. The girl Shizuku is at first stiff, shy and embarrassed about performing but gains confidence. She has previously met the old shop-keeper and they have become instant friends, which explains his wink to her. Here is a sample of Studio Ghibli output from a number of films: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKVUkiorkA . I admit that only highlights presented like this make Miyazaki look somewhat garish. It is the quieter moments that make his films what they are. There is little that would be called vulgarity and no dancing and singing salt shakers and no musical numbers, except the one I presented and one in My Neighbors the Yamadas. I was a fan of Disney when a child, but have since turned away from most Disney output. Even as a child I could see that a lot of it offered cheap substitutes for better things. Carl Bark’s Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge tales were two of the exceptions. And there I was puzzled that outside of the comic books the studio seemed not to be interested in presenting what to me was the real Donald or Uncle Scrooge. When Disney Studios did adapt Carl Barks’ Uncle Scrooge stories for the television series Duck Tales, they naturally changed them for the worse and vulgarized them and watered them down. I suspect Tolkien mostly ignored Disney output as common, vulgar, and silly stuff in which he had no interest. I entirely agree with Galadriel55’s analysis. Last edited by jallanite; 10-10-2012 at 07:29 PM.