Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
I disagree. While the Men may have defeated the Witch-King on their own, Sauron was defeated by divine grace in my opinion. Were it not for the hobbits to be guided all up until the last moment, and were it not for the fortuituous destruction of the ring, then the Men will have perished, and M-E would have fallen.
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My statement was that Sauron was defeated ****primarily***** through the ***actions and choices of*** etc
- Frodo exerted himself mightily and was successful in getting the One to the place where it "could" be destroyed.
- Frodo's mercy (and Bilbo's before him) made it possible for Gollum to be in place (and with the drive to) take the ring so it "could" be destroyed.
- Gandalf's & Aragorn's decision to make themselves bait succeeded in distracting Sauron so he would focus his efforts OUTSIDE his land, reducing the search for the Ring INSIDE - which gave Frodo & Sam the chance to sneak the rest of the way in.
- Faramir's decision to let Frodo go in spite of his Father's wishes, and even to give him extra food, enabled the quest to continue and succeed.
- Sam's steadfastness led to Frodo's rescue from Cirith Ungol, and to him not being caught by Gollum before they could get to the mountain, and to their escaping from the Orcs at the Isenmouth.
Intervention by the divine - the changing of the winds at Pellenor, Gandalf's **advising** the captains after that battle, etc - don't take away from or diminish that it was actions of Mortals that **PRIMARILY** (I never said "wholly") led to Sauron's fall.
Even (if you want to consider it so) the question of how Gollum happened to fall into the cracks is addressed by Tolkien in a Letter (don't have the number with me here). The essence is that FRODO expended himself to get the Ring to Mt Doom. That it was only *THEN* that divine providence stepped in and helped finish the task.
The point is that this is a far cry from saying that the Valar (or The One) just "did the job for" the Eruhini.
Rather - Men, Elves, and others had to exert THEMselves, use THEIR intelligence and determination, expend THEIR "blood, sweat and tears" - all without ANY assurance (or even suggestion) that the divine would bail them out if they faltered.
It was only AFTER all of that - and, indeed, only **BECAUSE** of all that, that a final grace was bestowed that, as it were, put them over the top.