[TheAzn]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

That being said, if this point is indeed "one of the greatest plot holes" in The Lord of the Rings then we can be extra thankful that we got a book with such a tight and consistent plot.

I actually agree with this, Zigur. Although I think that I have found the one of the glaring plot holes in the Trilogy, Professor Tolkien is by far one of the most consistent writers that I know of.

The impression I get though is that this is in fact the case - the Men of Minas Tirith simply did not have artillery. As far as I can determine, they are never mentioned as having any. The reason the Orcs stayed out of bowshot was because that was the only threat they faced from the Men of Gondor: bows. It wasn't that the Men of Gondor had artillery with very short ranges; they just didn't have artillery at all. Whether or not that is a "mistake" or "inconsistency" on Professor Tolkien's part is not so definite though.

I am glad to hear your honest opinion, even though I disagree rather completely.

Sauron also attacked earlier than expected because Aragorn used the Orthanc-stone. But this makes an assumption that they would have used artillery, which I think is not necessarily reasonable.

Just in case you are saying that the Gondorians did not have enough time, I would like to point to 2 examples.
1) The first would be the Hornburg. The attack upon Rohan was sudden too. Yet, the Hornburg was relatively well prepared. This is despite the fact that Theoden has just recently been freed from the influence of Saruman.
2) Saruman was definitely caught off guard. Yet, merely a short time after returning to the Orthanc, he immediately figured out how to use Isengard its near fullest potential. The great forges were started and some Ents burned. Unfortunately for Saruman, this just makes the Ents more angry.
Still, people can do amazing things even when surprised.

Maybe Minas Tirith's fortification just wasn't being used to the full potential that we can see with the benefit of hindsight and modern perspective.

When we are talking artilleries, sure some hindsight might have affected our judgements. If I was a Gondorian soldier, I might have been surprised and caught off guard too when heads were thrown. But the Gondorians were aware for a long time that other great threats to Minas Tirith existed. They have plenty of time to recognize that artilleries are the best weapons against these threats.

It may seem unrealistic to us, but this war was being fought in a very ancient time by an imaginary realm with an inconsistent level of scientific development. They key word though is imaginary; they don't have to practice warfare the same way people did in our history, because this is not our history. It is an imaginary history, and can occur in any way its creator sees fit. If Professor Tolkien says they didn't have artillery, then they didn't have artillery;

This would not have been much of a problem except that one of the main point of the Trilogy is realism. Considering that Professor Tolkien was also a war veteran, the standard of consistency should be higher for him than non-military authors when it comes to warfare. For example, readers would be rightfully angry if it turns out that Hobbits consumed 10,000 ton of food daily, even when the author consistently said that Hobbits have many meals per day. It could be that these small Hobbits have a black hole inside their stomach, but this requires a huge suspension of disbelief. Good stories make sure that they are never far from reality, and Tolkien did a great job for the majority of the time.

I think he gives sufficient internal explanation for why the Men of Gondor considered their defences to be adequate (even if they actually weren't). What he doesn't give us is much evidence to assume that artillery or engines of any kind would have been in use by the Men of Gondor; it's more consistent with his world that they were not.

Yes, he gives sufficient explanation as to why the Gondorian were initially not afraid of the Mordorian artilleries. But there are many other great threats that still require the use of artilleries to effectively neutralize. These are the threats that the Gondorians have known about for a very long time. They have plenty of opportunity to recognize that artilleries are the best weapons against these threats.

Again, it's only obvious from our perspective, a perspective we cannot assume to be universal.

The art of war is usually universal across even fictional universes; strategies and tactics have to make sense. Considering that Professor Tolkien was also a war veteran, it is not really acceptable for him to be erroneous. Siege warfare are always the same for the defenders: have walls or any other physical defense; make sure that you have a great store of food; leave an opening for escape if possible; horses are relatively useless for fighting in the small confinements of the city; make sure that you have the ability to kill as many enemy as possible before they even reach your walls; etc.

It's also worth considering that sieges of that nature were uncommon in Gondor, and in the later centures of the Third Age the Men of Gondor had spent most of their military endeavours in open battles, street-fighting in Osgiliath, skirmishes in Ithilien and Naval combat against Umbar and the Men of the Harad. Minas Tirith itself had not been beseiged since the end of the Second Age over three thousand years earlier, and so its unique defensibility had realistically never had a chance to be fully realised and exploited.

Street-fighting in Osgiliath is actually close quarter combat and might be considered siege warfare, especially if the Mordorians are trying to “scale” the river. The best way to repel the Mordorians in that case would be to use artilleries. One shot can sink boats and destroy Mordorian temporary bridges. If I am not mistaken, the fight for Osgiliath has been happening for a very long time. It does not take much intelligence to know that, once the sparsely defended Osgiliath, Cair Andros and Pelargir fall, Minas Tirith is next on the menu. There is every reason for the Gondorians to ramp up Minas Tirith.

Perhaps at the end of the Third Age the Men of Gondor simply lacked the experience or technological expertise to make engines of that nature and utilise them effectively.

As I have implied in my other post, building ancient style artilleries is not hard. Even pre-teens can build respectable artilleries. As for expertise in usage, it is true that Minas Tirith itself has not been under siege for a long time. But for the important choke points of the surrounding area, the story was very different. It is quite impossible for the Gondorians to be lacking in artillerymen.
Below is a video showing Pre-teens firing their homemade artillery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRazO...6157DAE738106D

I'm afraid to say that the Men of Gondor were not perfect and did not always think of everything, including things that might seem blatantly obvious to us.

This would be true if the intelligence of the Gondorians was far lower than that of us human beings today. Nothing in Tolkien’s work suggested that. The threats that they were facing were very obvious, and I am trying my best to view the world from a Gondorian general point of view. It does not take a perfect race to figure out the necessity of artilleries based on the threats that they are facing. No matter how much lacking in resources, an empire should have no problem filling a city with artilleries. Even middle-income families can build several artilleries during their leisure time.

I personally never liked the way the Men of Minas Tirith were given trebuchets in the films - they are too explicitly medieval/early Renaissance and too mechanical for me, which doesn't really fit with how I imagine the Dúnedain.

I guess that this is a case of difference in taste.