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Old 08-05-2012, 12:35 PM   #67
Sarumian
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An interesting thread. Let me add my 2 cents.

If we compare loyalty to gravity, would a moon remain loyal to a planet if the planet has gone? Probably, the moon would still carry many traces of it's former master's influence and would even consist of the same combination of substances, but it is no more a satellite. It is no more kept in and directed by it's former master's gravity. Then everything depend on what exactly you mean by 'loyalty'.

May I also rise the question if Stalin was loyal to Lenin? After Lenin's death Stalin ran an official quasi-cult of Lenin with a pyramid, containing Lenin's mummified body in the middle of Moscow. Stalin always presented himself as a defender of Lenin's ideas and attitudes against various opportunists (such as Trotsky). However, Stalin followed Lenin's ideas in his own interpretation, quite opportunistic sometimes. Moreover, Lenin died, loosing his battle against his "dedicated disciple".

Quote:
On May 25, 1922, Lenin suffered a stroke while recovering from surgery to remove a bullet lodged in his neck since a failed assassination attempt in August 1918. Severely debilitated, he went into semi-retirement and moved to his dacha in Gorki. Stalin visited him often, acting as his intermediary with the outside world.[2] During this time, the two quarrelled over economic policy and how to consolidate the Soviet republics. One day, Stalin verbally swore at Lenin's wife for breaching Politburo orders by helping Lenin communicate with Trotsky and others about politics;[2] this greatly offended Lenin. As their relationship deteriorated, Lenin dictated increasingly disparaging notes on Stalin in what would become his testament. He criticised Stalin's rude manners, excessive power, ambition and politics, and suggested that Stalin should be removed from the position of General Secretary. One of Lenin's secretaries showed Stalin the notes, whose contents shocked him.[2] Before Stalin could mend any bridges, Lenin suffered a heart attack on March 10, 1923 which left him completely incapacitated.
Rise of Joseph Stalin in Wikipedia, providing the generally accepted interpretation of the affairs.

Did Stalin respect Lenin as a politician? Yes. Did he serve Lenin's cause with dedication? Yes. Did he usually support Lenin in his disagreements with other Party members? Yes. Did he keep Lenin's reputation extremely high after Lenin's death? Yes.

Did Stalin undisputedly implement suggestions of handicapped Lenin in the last months of his life? No. Can we think he really wanted Lenin to recover? No. Did he have most of Lenin's associates eliminated in "purges"? Yes. Did he revised Lenin-Trotsky cause of world-wide Communist revolution, working out a "Leninist" Socialism-in-one-country theory of his own? Yes.

So was Stalin loyal to Lenin? It, again, depends on what do you mean by loyalty.

Was Sauron loyal to Morgoth after the 1st Age? I think, Sauron was loyal to himself. He was loyal to his own essence shaped under Morgoth's patronage, but no more personally to Morgoth.
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