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Old 08-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #35
Zigūr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumriken View Post
Morgoth was outside the world remember...you almost make it sound that the only way Sauron would be able to stay loyal to Morgoth would be to create a statue of him and start worshipping him and forcing others to do so. That would be stupid and Morgoth would agree.[/B]
That is indeed (albeit rather facetiously phrased) what I would consider still being loyal, no matter how "stupid" it sounds, because it would mean that Sauron was carrying on in tribute and devotion to Morgoth, not for the sake of his own power and glory. Just because it seems stupid doesn't mean it's an implausible motivation. That's what a loyal follower would do, even though the master was dead or absent. You yourself said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumriken View Post
Loyal to himself...who else to be loyal towards? Morgoth was in the void...that he forced the numenoreans to worship Morgoth is another action that suggests he still was loyal.
Assuming Sauron did establish this religion out of loyalty to Morgoth, this is exactly the "stupid" kind of loyalty you are talking about. Clearly by presenting this piece of evidence you yourself recognise that it is not unreasonable behaviour. The question is: was he encouraging the Nśmenoreans to worship Morgoth because he actually believed it would do any good or because it was what Morgoth would have wanted, or did he do it for the sake of his own power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post
Let's say this is the case, that his loyalty was based on carrying on in Morgoth's name. Now, keeping this train of thought, what about when Melkor was imprisoned for all those long years, the 3 Ages in Mandos' Halls? Did Sauron carry on in Morgoth's name or did he hide out for his own sake like many of Morgoth's other servants did? Was he punished for his disloyalty when Morgoth returned?
Morgoth's Ring tells us that Sauron did indeed stay loyal to Melkor during the latter's imprisonment. He worked on rebuilding Angband, breeding Orcs and various other projects Melkor had started before his capture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post
Sauron building his own bases of power and seeking servants and the like to do his will does not necessarily mean he turned against Morgoth does it?
No, it doesn't necessarily mean he turned against Morgoth, but it doesn't necessarily mean he was still serving him either.
I guess we could simplify this discussion by analysing this question: did Sauron establish the Melkor-religion among the Nśmenoreans because he genuinely believed that Morgoth was God and could give blessings to the Nśmenoreans, in real tribute to Morgoth (or his memory) and because it was what Morgoth would have wanted? Or, on the other hand, did he do it simply out of convenience because it was the most convincing lie for Morgoth's former lieutenant to tell?
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