[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

With Menel I was kind of late and actually didn't so much suspect him but was asking why he was doing it (basically ending up thinking he was just out of touch), but if you look closer, the thing I was strongly against was the content of his message which was "lynch those who try to play and save the submarines" (to put it in somewhat strong terms) as I also clearly indicated he should not be lynched after coming back after such a long time.

So not Menel but what he suggested.

Well, that's putting it in really "strong terms", I would say rather misquoting. What he said was:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

In any case, I suggest that if we have had no luck for the next few days and innocents die instead of wolves, we look at those who have been pushing them to their deaths. The most dangerous werewolf is an influential one, after all.

Effectively, if you took certain extreme route, it could lead to what you said, but I don't see it that way. That's really an extreme interpretation of it.

I, of course, do share your concern about quiet Wolves, as you must know. But this is not about ideology now, this is about what you use as tool to suspect someone. Suspect someone just because he has different opinion is a rather cheap way.

Originally Posted by Nog

I don't think I suddenly became active in a Pitchwagon. He voted me against the basic reasoning an intelligent innocent keeps (don't vote someone with bad or fabricated reasons as that someone might be an innocent) and thus I thought he could be a wolf who doesn't think like an innocent has to, especially a wolf doesn't have to take care his reasons are as good as he can make as any vote for a wolf is a known vote and there is no such risk as an innocent's vote carries with it.

But you turned on him. Anyway - this is more like general remark - did it ever occur to you that what you consider logical might not seem logical to everyone? Take this as friendly remark (especially if you are innocent), I think you very often have your own "clear logical set" which very often backfires, because it stems from some premise that does not really hold. (Remember that enthusiasm you yelled with when you reported G55's "Wolf slip" yesterDay. I thought that too at that moment. But it is exactly these "clear" things which often turn not to be so clear. I recall how once in my game you were sure you must lynch Roa because you were sure if she was an Ordo, she would have remembered the content of the Ordo-PM I sent to everyone...)

Originally Posted by Nog

What I said was, that IF there was a seer-dream included (as to why they "knew" to pick Zil - as a possibility they got it right rather than just having a huge boost of luck), then there were two possibilities of which G55 made more sense - and actually fit nicely into the other pattern with Sally (remembering Sally's behaviour on D2 as well) etc.

If you go back and read you can see I have in one post two "arguments", one on how could it be Zil dreamt of Menel, and another on how it could be he dreamt of G55. Surely you don't try to say I was arguing them for real at the same time?

I did not see that "if" there, but you are right, you spoke also of the other possibility. The support of "G55 was a dreamed Wolf" had drawn my attention more strongly yesterDay since your arguing for it was rather, well, illogical. But yes.

Originally Posted by Nog

And anyway, without the hindsight we have now, I think the case with G55 being a dreamt wolf wasn't that far-fetched but actually fit in quite well with both the what happened around - and why they got Zil.

Not sure what you mean by this one, but anyway, my brain is already getting sleepy.

Originally Posted by Nog

If none casts suspicion around how are we going to vote, by rolling a dice? You actually agree, but at this moment this kind of thing suits your ends, doesn't it?

Certainly not, of course. And where does all this sudden aggressivity come from? I state I suspect you and you start jumping back. Anyway, of course we need to suspect someone, what else is the game about, right? But there is difference between having your own suspicions and pressuring, openly or less openly, others to follow you. And I think, when rereading your posts, you cannot deny you have been doing that. Seriously.

Well, now I would actually really like that I could be around more - because now I would like to actually talk to you, Nog for a while still, to make more of your defense. But like I said, I cannot, I won't be around for the rest of the Day at all. Means I must vote, and despite granting some benefit of doubt of some things I said, I still think you are my best bet right now. But of course there is still the rest of the people, and with what was said about the importance of voting, I truly urge everyone to review their suspicions critically. Just let's not get led or misled.

++Nogrod