The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Hobbit2 - Chapter 03

jallanite · 05-22-2012, 01:42 PM

Tolkien writes:

In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief.

This is puzzling for any stage of Tolkien’s pseudo-history. Elrond was originally the sole ancestor of such persons rather than just their chief. It does feel like Tolkien conceives this Elrond as one of the descendants of the original Elrond and the chieftain of a household of half-elven folk.

In The Fellowship of the Ring there is only one Elrond who has two sons and a daughter. This Elrond is of course the chief of these four people, including himself, but it seems to me odd to describe these four people as “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors”, especially as Tolkien has since invented Elrond’s brother Elros who is the ancestor of the royal house of the Númenóreans.

However at this point in Tolkien’s elvish history as he then saw it, the line of chieftains of the descendants of Isildur had fallen into temporary abeyance following the death of Arathorn and the minority of Aragorn who was being fostered by Elrond. Perhaps Elrond had also taken over, during this period, the position of active chieftain of the Rangers of the North until Aragorn came of age.

Or it might be that Bilbo, at that time, is to be imagined as not keeping straight the distinction between the Rangers, who were mostly “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors”, and the children of Elrond who are also “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors” and of whom the two sons also served as Rangers.

This chapter is extraordinarily clear and pleasant from the precise description of the land between the ford and Rivendell to the end of the chapter.

The first appearance of elves in perfectly imagined. We never actually see the elves, although Bilbo does, but we hear them and—in one of Tolkien’s points of genius—smell them.

The elvish song is sometimes on the verge of being insulting, but its frivolousness and its clear welcome to the weary travellers should take any edge from the jesting. Thorin is just a sourpuss.

05-22-2012, 01:42 PM	#4
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	Tolkien writes: In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief. This is puzzling for any stage of Tolkien’s pseudo-history. Elrond was originally the sole ancestor of such persons rather than just their chief. It does feel like Tolkien conceives this Elrond as one of the descendants of the original Elrond and the chieftain of a household of half-elven folk. In The Fellowship of the Ring there is only one Elrond who has two sons and a daughter. This Elrond is of course the chief of these four people, including himself, but it seems to me odd to describe these four people as “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors”, especially as Tolkien has since invented Elrond’s brother Elros who is the ancestor of the royal house of the Númenóreans. However at this point in Tolkien’s elvish history as he then saw it, the line of chieftains of the descendants of Isildur had fallen into temporary abeyance following the death of Arathorn and the minority of Aragorn who was being fostered by Elrond. Perhaps Elrond had also taken over, during this period, the position of active chieftain of the Rangers of the North until Aragorn came of age. Or it might be that Bilbo, at that time, is to be imagined as not keeping straight the distinction between the Rangers, who were mostly “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors”, and the children of Elrond who are also “some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors” and of whom the two sons also served as Rangers. This chapter is extraordinarily clear and pleasant from the precise description of the land between the ford and Rivendell to the end of the chapter. The first appearance of elves in perfectly imagined. We never actually see the elves, although Bilbo does, but we hear them and—in one of Tolkien’s points of genius—smell them. The elvish song is sometimes on the verge of being insulting, but its frivolousness and its clear welcome to the weary travellers should take any edge from the jesting. Thorin is just a sourpuss.