[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Note: This is the last letter I'm posting about before Christmas. I'll be taking a break for the next two or three (holi-)days and will continue on the 27th at the latest.

I think you were not the only one

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

It's a view of Oxford, with FC's sleigh and 7 pair of reindeer plus two white ones in front. He says: "14 is such a nice number" - do you think there's some significance to that particular one?

I will repost my thoughts about this from one of the earlier threads:

>>> As for the "reindeer over Oxford" picture - I find it worth mentioning at least: did anybody of you think of the symbolism of numbers which seems to be pointed out in the accompanying letter? FC emphasises that the kids should note he has seven pairs of reindeers instead of the generally acknowledged six - any idea why to give such a strong importance to this? Isn't it curious? Such a random thing? My personal belief is that this has a lot to do with Tolkien's personal feeling, and I would very much like to know more about it even in general. FC says in the letter that "fourteen is such a nice number" and that is what I believe is Tolkien's personal, and very strong, feeling, in fact. I mean: we also have fourteen Valar, seven and seven, just like the reindeer pairs. Coincidence? By no means, in my opinion.

It continues to intrigue me, and it has been intriguing me for a long time, so that's maybe why I noticed this also here, but why? Yes, fourteen is two times seven, and seven is really a nice number. But wouldn't it be even better, for example in the case of Morgoth and the Valar, to have twelve Valar (and now given that Tolkien was a devout Christian, make it similar e.g. to the twelve apostles...) and Morgoth with the ominous number thirteen, which is generally seen as "evil number" (unlike 15, which is just random)? Might he have wanted to avoid the possible "evil connotations" of number 6? Or what else might have been behind that?

I see this could do for a separate thread - but let me just remark here that I consider this deliberate choice and underlining of the fact that "hey, I don't have 12 reindeers, but 14" rather interesting. Especially in this case: like I said, for Tolkien, a devout Christian, the number 12 should have a very positive metaphorical value; it appears in the Bible and in Christianity in general so many times (the abovementioned 12 apostles, 12 tribes of Israel, all things related to salvation and New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation are expressed in metaphors with numbers that are multiplies of 12, or 12 times 12, etc etc...) in the most positive connotations that there should not be any reasons for him to specifically reject it.

I mean, personally, I also very much like the number 14 - although I am rather strongly convinced that it is, in fact, Tolkien's influence - but why to devote such a large part of the letter devoted to this topic? One would say there might have been more important things to write.

Unless he was trying to teach the children numbers

<<<

Originally Posted by Esty

FC says that they were drawn mostly by cave-men, with additions by the goblins. The third page of drawings is a letter from the North Polar Bear, written in an alphabet made of the goblin marks.

There are several new mythological characters in this letter - the old Cave Bear, goblins, and Red Gnomes - considering Tolkien's early name for Elves, I assume that they are Elven in nature. They are said to be at home in Norway!

Yes, and here I think we can witness how it suddenly starts to get "epic". And of course nobody can miss the similarity to The Hobbit. Lost in the darkness, led by the back door (!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, that is obvious "copypasting" if nothing else), goblins making a mess of things.

What made me really curious here is the dragons being on the list of died-out species. We know Tolkien was really fond of dragons, for him it was THE mythical creature, the thing that bears the trademark "made in Faerie" (as said in On Fairy-Stories). It was necessary to include them. But cave paintings of dragons are rather interesting way of putting them in, as well as saying "they no longer exist". I wonder if that goes hand in hand with Tolkien's sentence (also from On Fairy-Stories) that while the children desire dragons, they also wish to be reassured that there are no living dragons in England anymore: or if it is simply an explanation as to why there are no dragons to be seen in the world anymore.

Likewise, any idea where this drasil (goblin-mount) idea came from?