[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

Túrin is infuriatingly stubborn in his refusal to go back to Doriath with Beleg. "He strove with his pride" and again, pride kept the upper hand. And how could he expect the Elf to stay with him among the outlaws?
What also puzzles me is the fact that he apparently couldn't even remember Nellas!

"Have you always lived with your heart and half your mind far away?" (from memory) - Yes, he did. When he was with Nellas, he wasn't really with her - he was with Lalaith. I remember posting a while ago about this somewhere, but there is a note that says that (from memory again) "in all faces of women he sought the face of Lalaith". He is still that lost child who just experienced first grief, even though he pretends to be a "hard man by fate". Well, he doesn't exacly pretend, he is - but there is still an element of a child in him.

Originally Posted by Guinevere

I feel very sorry for Mîm! It must be terrible to be forced to share his home with the murderer of his son! And even if Túrin had promised not to "raise his hands against Elves or Men" he is not above pressing ransom from a Dwarf who hadn't done him any harm.

Well, it's Androg who's done the killing, and he was punished harshly by Mim. But I agree that it is not easy to bear the presence of such a person every day in your own home. Turin's ransom is a different thing altogether, though the point is still valid.

But as much as I pity Mim, I can't call him an angel. Time and again he shows that he's no brave hero.

You made me think of something. Turin and Mim became very close, because they read each other's hearts. They have things in common - both were not masters in their own house (Mim at Amon Rudh and Turin in Dor-lomin), both had strict principles based on pride, and both are unable or unwilling to forgive. They speak a common language.

Originally Posted by Guinevere

It's quite a while since I had read this part of U.T., and I didn't remember that there were such large gaps in the story - the sudden jump from the Mîm chapter to the Return to Dor-lómin is rather irritating.

Indeed!

Originally Posted by Guinevere

Reading about Túrin's disastrous rashness and fit of temper in Brodda's hall is almost painful - poor Labadal!

Saying this, I would like to compare the Labadal of Turin's youth and his manhood. The first Labadal is a friend. Sometimes a guide and a teacher, but still a friend. An equal, or even a superior. The second Labadal is a faithful servant - but much inferior. Is it only Turin's age that made the difference? The disappearance of Hurin and Morwen? His own weakness (physical, yes, but also spiritual compared with Turin's might. Perhaps also the weakness of the "strawheads" in the country in general)?

Here we once again see the repetition of wisdom being a lesser thing than strength, although it should have been the opposite.

Originally Posted by Guinevere

But I love Aerin - here is a true heroine with no false pride, doing quietly good without renown.

I would say with renown, but secret renown. But she doesn't do it for renown. Makes any sense?

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Moreover, though both had sympathizers and allies, Grettir and Gisli were basically lone figures. Turin, on the other hand, is always falling in with some group or other.

I don't know any of the sagas that you mentioned, but I want to pick on that statement. Turin lives with a group. He is physically part of the group. But he is still alone at heart.

Edit: xed with Pitch