[Boromir88]

Perhaps not directly pertinent to the discussion on Morwen, but I think it will interest G55 talking about "good pride" and "bad pride."

Normally, I think in Tolkien's writing (at least on Middle-earth) there is the stress on Pride being a vice. Gandalf is viewed much better because of his immense display of humility and sacrifice. I won't rehash the list of characters who become blinded by their pride. The tricky part is, Pride can lead you to greatness, and reaching accomplishments that no one thought possible. With that said, the same pride is a slippery slope to one's own downfall. I think in the case with Feanor and Turin, is while their pride was their reason for achieving Greatness, their pride leads to the inevitable Fall. Because ultimately, Pride blinds you from yourself and eventually consumes you. Once you start down the slippery slope, you can't avoid the inevitable going from being the master of your pride, to becoming mastered by pride.

What I think would interest you, G55, is Tolkien's differing opinion on ofermod. I don't recall the word ever being used in Tolkien's middle-earth related writings, but the concept is present. I believe the literal translation of ofermod is "excessive spirit," and most scholars view Beowulf's ofermod as a positive trait. It is Beowulf's "excessive sprit" which leads to Beowulf achieving greatness. Tolkien took a different view, and thinks Beowulf's ofermod leads to rash decisions and unnecessary deaths of Beowulf's comrades. Beowulf's "excessive spirit" blinded him and led to rash, and unwise decisions.

So, when talking about the context of Middle-earth, it doesn't matter whether one agrees with Tolkien's interpretation of ofermod. What matters is Tolkien's opinion on it and how it's present in his story. Ofermod is thus the "bad pride," it is the "excessive pride," which can be seen in a wide range of Tolkien's characters.

As far as Morwen, I really have no opinion, or it's kind of similar to my opinion on Denethor. Many flaws as a parent as a leader, but I can't hate them because I do see good traits, possibly redeeming traits. The primary one being, Denethor always remained stoutly opposed to Sauron. Minas Tirith was the stalwart tower of resistance, and Denethor bolstered that resistance until the very end when he lost all hope in the strength of his house and realm. Not the most sympathetic person, but not someone I could hate or call "evil." And Morwen is very similar, in my opinion. I agree she lets her pride and honor get in the way of the needs of her child, Turin. However, I can't beat up on her for being a bad person.

This is what makes me laugh though at the critics who will say Tolkien only wrote "completely bad or completely good" characters. I mean there are a few characters who, whether intended or not, come off that way. But, for the most part, I think there are more Denethors and Morwens than there are Elronds and Gandalfs.