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***Gilthalion*** · 04-09-2001, 08:19 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 277</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
...a still small voice...

I had absolutely no intentions of even opening this topic, not really seeing the point of Harry Potter opinions on a Tolkien Discussion Board.

Complaints were made in the Barrow-Downs forum which is for general discussions.

So, I opened the topic to have a look.

Then I saw that the topic actually concerned an exercise in comparing and contrasting different works in the fantasy genre. That can be a useful exercise, but I have often found such exercises to be pointless.

The discussion disintegrated into an argument about the values (or lack thereof) among the main characters in the HP series and of Sam in LOTR.

By the way, I was astounded at how many people said they LIKED Gollum, who might be interesting to read, but is HARDLY likeable. Pitiable, but NOT likeable! Not totally irredeemable, but to blame Sam for Gollum's decisions is worse than Sam hastily calling Gollum names when waking to see him "pawing at Master." Sam even apologized! Sam was also nice enough to Gollum in Ithilien. He can hardly be blamed for being distrustful of the wicked and murderous creature! He could have been nicer perhaps, but I have not seen very many of YOU behaving any more nicely to folk in this topic who were certainly not guilty of Gollums murders and treachery!

After this, the topic further disintegrated into a rather uninformed and malinformed harrangue against the excesses of some who've called themselves Christians and of Fundamentalist Christians in particular.

A news story was republished in this thread that dealt with a particular small group near Pittsburgh whose members thought it best to purge the artifacts they possessed which they felt were coming between themselves and their walk with God. They were demeaned as intolerant and ignorant.

There's not much tolerance in the world for those who hold closely to their faiths, however simple, or however mistaken.

I see intolerance in the name of tolerance. These folk did not, even in the news story, insist that others do as they did. (Though they would clearly have been delighted if the world followed their example!) They did not ransack their neighbor's houses searching for Black Sabbath albums (Grrrr!) or Harry Potter books. They did not send a petition to Congress demanding a repeal of the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution.

They did what they thought best for themselves and their families. And they furthermore did so knowing YOU (in general) would think them bigots and fools.

I am reminded of a controversy that was brought before the Apostle Paul. It seems that some of the local Christians were getting a good deal at the butcher shop on meat that had been barbequed on pagan altars. Other Christians were upset and wanted Paul to forbid it. Paul answered that if eating such meat was a problem for them, then not to do it! But there was nothing in the meat itself that was evil, and it was not a sin. But to those who did eat the meat he said, don't do it in front of someone who you know it will offend! THAT would indeed be sinful...

For young Hannah and her KKK adversaries, this has a Real Life application for me. I live in Alabama. Down here in the South, the NAACP has been trying very hard for a decade to erase all vestiges of Confederate History. I am opposed to this. Nevertheless, I do NOT fly a CSA Battleflag and I do not support it being flown from the flag pole of our capitol because I know that it's misappropriation in the 1960's as a symbol of Segregationism has made it offensive to some of my Christian brethren (and their relatives). But if young Johnny Reb wants to wear it on his T-shirt because he's proud of umpty-great grandad, he has a right to. See the difference?

Samwise has a mother who would rather she not read Harry Potter, but who trusts Tolkien. Right or wrong, it is her mother's right to forbid her to indulge further in the stories. And it is Samwise's right to be persuaded to her mother's view and to attempt to persuade others as well. And it is the right of others to disagree.

It is no one's right on this Discussion Board to get personal, however.

I would urge you young folk to practice more of the tolerance you claim not to see in the Fundamentalist Christians the modern media teaches us to ridicule and despise.

And as for you young Samwise, be slow to take offense! You'll also find it better to SHOW than to TELL!

And with that, having told off almost everyone all at once, the old hobbit turned on his bare heel, stomped back into his little hole, and slammed the door in their astonished faces!

<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>

04-09-2001, 08:19 AM	#116
*Gilthalion* Hobbitus Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: South Farthing Posts: 635	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 277</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> ...a still small voice... I had absolutely no intentions of even opening this topic, not really seeing the point of Harry Potter opinions on a Tolkien Discussion Board. Complaints were made in the Barrow-Downs forum which is for general discussions. So, I opened the topic to have a look. Then I saw that the topic actually concerned an exercise in comparing and contrasting different works in the fantasy genre. That can be a useful exercise, but I have often found such exercises to be pointless. The discussion disintegrated into an argument about the values (or lack thereof) among the main characters in the HP series and of Sam in LOTR. By the way, I was astounded at how many people said they LIKED Gollum, who might be interesting to read, but is HARDLY likeable. Pitiable, but NOT likeable! Not totally irredeemable, but to blame Sam for Gollum's decisions is worse than Sam hastily calling Gollum names when waking to see him "pawing at Master." Sam even apologized! Sam was also nice enough to Gollum in Ithilien. He can hardly be blamed for being distrustful of the wicked and murderous creature! He could have been nicer perhaps, but I have not seen very many of YOU behaving any more nicely to folk in this topic who were certainly not guilty of Gollums murders and treachery! After this, the topic further disintegrated into a rather uninformed and malinformed harrangue against the excesses of some who've called themselves Christians and of Fundamentalist Christians in particular. A news story was republished in this thread that dealt with a particular small group near Pittsburgh whose members thought it best to purge the artifacts they possessed which they felt were coming between themselves and their walk with God. They were demeaned as intolerant and ignorant. There's not much tolerance in the world for those who hold closely to their faiths, however simple, or however mistaken. I see intolerance in the name of tolerance. These folk did not, even in the news story, insist that others do as they did. (Though they would clearly have been delighted if the world followed their example!) They did not ransack their neighbor's houses searching for Black Sabbath albums (Grrrr!) or Harry Potter books. They did not send a petition to Congress demanding a repeal of the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution. They did what they thought best for themselves and their families. And they furthermore did so knowing YOU (in general) would think them bigots and fools. I am reminded of a controversy that was brought before the Apostle Paul. It seems that some of the local Christians were getting a good deal at the butcher shop on meat that had been barbequed on pagan altars. Other Christians were upset and wanted Paul to forbid it. Paul answered that if eating such meat was a problem for them, then not to do it! But there was nothing in the meat itself that was evil, and it was not a sin. But to those who did eat the meat he said, don't do it in front of someone who you know it will offend! THAT would indeed be sinful... For young Hannah and her KKK adversaries, this has a Real Life application for me. I live in Alabama. Down here in the South, the NAACP has been trying very hard for a decade to erase all vestiges of Confederate History. I am opposed to this. Nevertheless, I do NOT fly a CSA Battleflag and I do not support it being flown from the flag pole of our capitol because I know that it's misappropriation in the 1960's as a symbol of Segregationism has made it offensive to some of my Christian brethren (and their relatives). But if young Johnny Reb wants to wear it on his T-shirt because he's proud of umpty-great grandad, he has a right to. See the difference? Samwise has a mother who would rather she not read Harry Potter, but who trusts Tolkien. Right or wrong, it is her mother's right to forbid her to indulge further in the stories. And it is Samwise's right to be persuaded to her mother's view and to attempt to persuade others as well. And it is the right of others to disagree. It is no one's right on this Discussion Board to get personal, however. I would urge you young folk to practice more of the tolerance you claim not to see in the Fundamentalist Christians the modern media teaches us to ridicule and despise. And as for you young Samwise, be slow to take offense! You'll also find it better to SHOW than to TELL! And with that, having told off almost everyone all at once, the old hobbit turned on his bare heel, stomped back into his little hole, and slammed the door in their astonished faces! <center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p> __________________ Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS. Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!