[Dakêsîntrah]

Galadriel55,

I am sorry if I have confused you about putting Curufinwë in the parentheses. Spirit of Fire is a titular name; I was applying this metaphorically to Turin's personality.

Morthoron,

Occam's Razor? You do know the principle lacks divine fiat in the realm of scientific endeavor, right?
Believe me, I have considered starting from a succinct hypothesis and afterwards, theory, but there's this thing about working your way down from a sand-house roof.

Sand-house rooves collapse easily, but everyone likes to gather at the flat-top roof for tea parties and basking in the sun!

Everyone is reluctant to leave the sand-clad roof and join the couple new neighbors who sit in their stone-house with a stone floor foundation.

For the sake of Morthoron and most mainstream scholarship's obsession with Occam's Razor, the 14th century man of simplicity - I have used a parable.

Those who quit sipping tea on the sand-house may find a stone-house, but they must first leave the sand-house to get there. It takes quite a lot to come down from your presuppositions.

But those with a comprehensive theory must present comprehensive evidence. I believe I have done this so far. Now, the threads must get thinner and thinner as I round out my workable theory.

And of course its nice to know that "life-blood" is an anglicized translation of a kenning transcribed by Lönnrot while it was sung..."

But somehow you seem to miss the far more ancient texts which already mention "life-blood" - The Sumerian, Akkadian, and Egyptian texts all predate Tolkien's Norsemen, and your pal alatar's implied bias of Scandinavian supremacy:

"In contrast, in Tolkien's world characters can look back as things were actually better in the past. Their ancestors were stronger, smarter, better."

Yes, as time passed, humans progressed in knowledge; but with knowledge came more opportunity for corruption.

"Tolkien removes the kenning, and once again he rains on your hypothetical parade:"

Really? Seemingly throughout all my "addled arcana and mythopoeic minutiae" you have missed my explanation of the occultic ritual of drinking blood. Your quotes of Gurthang support my hypothesis in this instance quite well.
There are tons of ancient texts and depictions of victims who are massacred as the main centre of ritual sacrifice. Shall I present them to you? Here I must tend to resist the complex of evidence and give you simple. Hmm, I never did tend to like Hobbits as simple-folk. Totally oblivious to ruin and rebirth. It's a good thing Frodo learned to "just leave" for the "Undying Lands," that of complex immortality...

Nevertheless, the blade of Turin corresponds quite well, I think, as a divine medium of sacrifice, that made of meteorite, just as altars/temples of sacrifice were made of the same substance in some cases.

And again, Morthoron, you fancy to have Eru speaking anthropomorphically. The "speaking" is the functional/relational action of the sword that defines it; therefore, it "speaks." It has a spirit of its own. And "spirit" ought to be justly defined as that which is simply action defined by function/relation. And who might be the sword relating to in which it is thoroughly defined? Turin Turambar.

Gurthang is in many ways, the object of the tribal deities who consumate or manifest the Name of Eru, the Hidden One in physical locality; and blood sacrifices to them mirror the cosmic interplay that is Eru.

Tolkien was aware of the distinction between the Biblical Hidden YHWH and the manifest tribal god El Elyon.

Bethberry, if you make the claim that something isn't logical, please be logical and offer supplementary evidence for it. If we wish to talk about grammar, then so be it. But Morthoron would like you to apply Occam's Razor first, please.

The "Church" example was intended to be a separate illustration from Buddhism. But tell me, what do you have in Buddhism that are the near equivalent of "churches?" (Without going back to the Anglo-Saxon etymology of "God" and "church").

"(If we can't agree on first principles, then there's little chance for understanding.)"

That's a logical fallacy. Why? Because your presuppositions are the root cause of your first, or second principles, and so on.

"Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, and so they cannot have this coercive practice."

As I have said before, "faith" is only a byproduct of religion when dogma seeps through. So, who do Buddhists put their "faith" in?

Let me see if your can counter the paradox of faith and reason.

"...in post #63 you claim that "modern linguistics" defines myth assynonymous with lies, but this is incorrect..."

Incorrect assumption. I was referring to modern field of linguistics studying the grammar, morphology and phonology in ancient myth texts with the aim of discerning meaning and consistency between historical text and archaeomythology.

Furthermore, cosmomythology rarely involved practical pursuits in meaning.

"I have no clue what the first sentence here means."

I'm trying to help you.

"Haven't you just tried to argue that religion is propaganda?"

You are confused again. I am not bashing religion; only when it is filtered through coercive "faith" systems. True religio-myth is based upon experience via reason.

"...use rituals whereas philosophies do not."

You must have missed the etymology of the word "ritual." Philosophies are founded upon reason based on experience.

Nerwen,

It is hard for one to really talk to someone who: claims someone is spouting out "pseudo-scientific conjectural association" - when in fact the one with this hasty conclusion, I dare say, has barely ventured into thoroughly testing the claims. Your reply is too soon, judging by this standard.

"...what you need to show is a.) that Tolkien was making this association..."

Do you honestly even care why 1) Tolkien even dared to associate Gurthang with meteorite? And 2) the multiple associations with blood sacrifice to the blade? I would suggest doing an extensive study of ancient near eastern cosmic ritual with fallen meteorite. Hey, and you even have the Islamic Ka'aba Meccans to speak about their "Black Stone"!

Best Regards