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Old 03-06-2011, 09:44 AM   #59
skip spence
shadow of a doubt
 
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
You'd have to be pretty moronic (or ignorant) to suggest that God makes sure individual people get what they deserve (in this world or Middle Earth). In an after-life, who can tell, but in this world we know, lots of wonderful people suffer horrendously and die young while plenty of arseholes live long and prosperous lives.

There's nothing to suggest that JRR Tolkien was moronic or ignorant. However, his tales are very moral ones, and typically the main protagonists actually do get what they deserve in waking life. I also disagree that CoH really differs in this respect from LotR, although the providence seems to be more accentuated in the trilogy. As has been pointed out, Turin gets lots of opportunities to do Right, but he is full of pride - and/or not strong enough to resist Morgoth - and therefore makes the wrong decisions and subsequently pays for it. In contrast, Tuor, his cousin, makes the right decisions and gets the rewards.

As to why this is, I don't know, but it is interesting. There's little doubt in my mind that Tolkien's Eru is a close approximation of his conception of the Christian God. Exactly what that was, I don't know, but based of what I do know, this seems a fair enough assumption and conclusion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumhalad2
I have, along with the essay writer, assumed that Tolkien's Eru possesses characteristics that are ascribed to the Xtian god by most theologians today - that is, omnibenevolence, omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

I then argued that if this were the case, there are certain logical contradictions inherent in that conception that would apply to Eru.
I don't know how far you can go with it though. The obvious problem here is that religious beliefs, in the real world, are ultimately based on faith, not rational logics, and believers can therefore disregard any logical discrepancies in the scriptures or practices by referring to god's omnipotence and our own shortcomings of perception. The answer to any query can be reduced to a curt and lazy "God wanted it that way, don't worry!"

As for 'the problem of Evil', this is one of the main themes of Tolkien's work, isn't it? Seems like the good professor has wrestled a lot in his mind with this, from his perspective, difficult problem, and he was no lazy thinker. Surely his thoughts went beyond his fictional universe and into the realm of his personal religious beliefs, and therefore his theological stuff is very interesting to read for an agnostic like myself.
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Last edited by skip spence; 03-06-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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