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Old 12-29-2002, 07:05 AM   #5
Voronwe
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Gondolin
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Sting

Ultimately, this comes down to a question of what one does or does not accept at 'canon'.

In Myths Transformed (HoME X) Tolkien states that:
Quote:
Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Namo Mandos as judge - and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and executed: that is killed like one of the Incarnates.
Morgoth's bodily execution reduced him to a weak and houseless spirit, since he had become utterly dependent on his body due to the dissipation of his power into the matter of Arda.

A few lines later, Tolkien writes:
Quote:
We read that he was then thrust out into the Void
This is followed by an explaination that 'Void' could mean outside space and time, or simply outside Arda. Tolkien himself does not seem to know which is meant, though he does tell us that putting Morgoth outside space and time would require a direct action of Eru.

The text I am using is an extremely interesting essay entitled 'Notes on motives in The Silmarillion' and contains a great deal of information relating to the philosophy behind the work - a very enlightening read. Personally I am inclined to take this essay as canon on the subject of Morgoth's fate after the breaking of Angband, since it goes into more detail about it than any other source and is likely to have been Tolkien's latest writing on the subject.

Ithaeliel:
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It is said that each age (or something like that) the Valar will open the door to 'test' Morgoth, but if his heart is still black, he will stay in the Void.
Where did you read that?

Manwe:
Quote:
He's gonna come out, but get killed by Túrin the Vala. (See HoMe IV).
This is a rather thorny canonical issue. It is likely that the 'Second Prophecy of Mandos' - the prediction that Morgoth will return and be slain by Turin at the end of time - was abandoned by Tolkien later in his life. Certainly the text in HoMe IV is rather old, dating from the 1930s. In Myths Transformed Tolkien merely tells us that Melkor (no longer called Morgoth after his bodily death) will eventually find strength to return to Arda and attack the Valar. Presumably this will bring about the end of Arda Marred in some sort of final battle. Turin's part in this battle had been abandoned, being no longer suitable. I believe Tolkien experimented with the idea of bringing Turin back to slay Ancalagon at the end of the first age, but I don't think this was ever fully developed.

[ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]
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