The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Predestination in Middle-Earth

Iarwain · 09-17-2003, 09:05 PM

The brief description of the Great Themes in Ainulindale leaves a lot of open space for ideas and theories relating to the reason for events that take place in Middle-Earth. Of course, the idea of predestination and free will brings us into the question of whether or not and in what form time itself existed. If time existed in the sense that the past and the future were nonexistant, and reality was merely a measurement of the causes and effects occuring, then I would say that predestination did not take a hold on the people, places, and things of Middle-Earth. However, if time in Middle-Earth was an extension of constant, all encompassing existance (meaning that the cycle of cause and effect was endlessly connected and that what happened one minute ago could have as great (or small) an effect as what happened one millenium ago), then predestination seems to be woven into the very fabric of life. The determining factor here is Eru, and in the end the question comes down to this: Was Eru's existance without time (infinite in past, present, and future), or was the "beginning" spoken of also the beginning of Eru himself? (therefore making the tales of Ea, Arda, and Middle Earth naught more than a bubble in the nothingness of unexistance)

Personally, I would assume the former opinion, as an infinite "reality" of nonexistence seems completely irrational to me. However, an infinity of existance might seem just as irrational to others. I would very much like to hear opinions on this matter, perhaps with some evidence from the Books, but raw observation and insight is good also.

Many Thanks,
Iarwain

[ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

09-17-2003, 09:05 PM	#1
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	Predestination in Middle-Earth The brief description of the Great Themes in Ainulindale leaves a lot of open space for ideas and theories relating to the reason for events that take place in Middle-Earth. Of course, the idea of predestination and free will brings us into the question of whether or not and in what form time itself existed. If time existed in the sense that the past and the future were nonexistant, and reality was merely a measurement of the causes and effects occuring, then I would say that predestination did not take a hold on the people, places, and things of Middle-Earth. However, if time in Middle-Earth was an extension of constant, all encompassing existance (meaning that the cycle of cause and effect was endlessly connected and that what happened one minute ago could have as great (or small) an effect as what happened one millenium ago), then predestination seems to be woven into the very fabric of life. The determining factor here is Eru, and in the end the question comes down to this: Was Eru's existance without time (infinite in past, present, and future), or was the "beginning" spoken of also the beginning of Eru himself? (therefore making the tales of Ea, Arda, and Middle Earth naught more than a bubble in the nothingness of unexistance) Personally, I would assume the former opinion, as an infinite "reality" of nonexistence seems completely irrational to me. However, an infinity of existance might seem just as irrational to others. I would very much like to hear opinions on this matter, perhaps with some evidence from the Books, but raw observation and insight is good also. Many Thanks, Iarwain [ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ] __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"