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Thinlómien · 04-10-2010, 03:58 AM

*ahem*

Okay, wagons

- the Lottie-wagon
- the "I'm so concerned Loslote will be lynched, look at this unreasoned crowd against her" wagon
- the sudden Greenie-wagon
- the victorious Fea-wagon

There's something wrong with Lottie...
I didn't look at this wagon through and through, but it seems to me rather simple. A crowd of people living in Finland had been suspecting Lottie (among others or then just mostly her) during the Day and partly agreed with each others points and then they had to go to sleep and vote, around the same time. Most of them (me, Greenie & Legate) chose to vottie (hahaha a typo but let's leave it

means "vote Lottie", obv.), some (Aganzir) didn't. Conclusions? If you ask me, I don't think the wagon is necessarily evil. After all, I thought we had good points against Lottie even though they turned out to be wrong, and everybody had a bit of their own grounds so no one was following others blindly. But of course, the Lottie wagon doesn't make us innocent either. What can we conclude, then? At least this: please people, don't mislead yourselves by concluding I must be more innocent than Legate or Greenie because of the placement of my vote. I think we would all have voted Lottie, whatever the order of our votes, but I just happened to decide to go to sleep first.

Eee! Lottie is an easy lynch and people are voting her for bad grounds! Oo, we're all gonna die!
So what's wrong here? Lottie might be an easy Day1 lynch (I don't remember her fate in the games I've played with her so I can't verify this but I trust it if you say so), but the grounds for voting her weren't lousy - even though she's now proven innocent. It makes me slightly annoyed how some people seeked to discredit all suspicion against Lottie despite the fact she was possibly the person against whom there was presented the biggest amound of rational points thus far.
Guilty of expressing concern over possible Lottie lynch:
- Izzy (first)
- Greenie (although she voted her herself, quite fishy)
- Nogrod (see more below, did this twice btw)
- Legate (dislikes the smoothness of the emerging Lottie wagon - a question: am I reading a totally different game than you others?! for what I've seen, there was the joke Fea vote which seemed like an obvious to be retracted vote, my and Greenie's votes, Sally's suspicion and Agan's suspicion and vote for someone else than Lottie... ..what? should we start suspecting Sally now? she's the only one whose approach could be called "smooth" or sneaky... anyway Mr L himself voted Lottie.)
- Shasta
- Sally ("I think Lottie's suspicious, but I get sick of Day One lynching her." That is perfectly fine, but later she starts a massive operastion Save Private Lottie, which seems rather fishy - like a wolf who tries to look good.)
- Brinn (amidst general wishy-washy warning against bandwagons)
Guilty of ignoring/discrediting the "proof" against Lottie:
- Nogrod (well might be a bit misleading to place him here but I don't like him calling me and Greenie's votes as "rapid lynching queue" while we had been suspecting Lottie for some time already and just had to go to sleep around the same time, later he said there was too much opportunism involved. From whose part, would you clarify?)
- Boro (called it hogwash for obvious reasons!)
- Zil ("this push against Lottie looks bad" - oh dear, by that point more people had expressed concern over the possible lynch of Lottie than voted or spoken for voting for her

, later flip-flops on which is more evil: Lottie herself or the wagon, ends up voting neither.)
- Lottie (takes it as another Day1 wagon against her innocent self, but we can maybe forgive that... ha.)
- Shasta ("reasoning on the bandwagon isn't superb" - admitted, but what better reasoning was there around at that time? when I went to sleep, it was in the end of page 2 and Day1 ended on page 6 so I missed quite a lot of discussion... and later Shasta calls voting Lottie bandwagoning on Fea's vote, which is at least from my part absolute nonsense because I was 100% sure Fea'd come back and retract)
- Brinn (her selective memory remembers the early nonsense-points against Lottie, but not the later and more serious ones... how convenient, given that every time someone gets more than one vote it's a bandwagon and you have to cry "evil!")
- Nienna (all her reaction to the points against Lottie: "suspicious bandwagon"... great.)
- Sally and Izzy (Not otherwise, but they discredited Legate's vote. I wouldn't think this too bad for I too raised some eyebrows when I read his vote even though I knew he had had points against her earlier. Still, I'm inclined to think he's not evil.)
- Glirdan (says the bandwagon is ridiculous and asks why get rid of Lottie since she's good at spotting wolves... really, most of us are good at that at our best, and should we lynch those who aren't just to ensure they'll never learn?)
Okay, forgive my slightly personal approach here, but I really think the massive discrediting was slightly weird (and I didn't like it because I can admit I was wrong about Lottie but I don't want to admit I had ridiculous grounds for voting her 'cos I didn't), and can't be all honest (or then some of you guys are a flock of chickens). Looking at this has been helpful for me, though, because now I have some suspects: Greenie, Nog, Zil, Brinn, Shasta, Sally. I bet there are at least one or two wolves among those.
PS. it's interesting Nogrod's very concerned about all the suspicion against Lottie still he is suspicious of her himself...

Fea's vote is so weird she has to be bad.
Skip gave the first vote early on. He grounded his suspicion well although I disagree with what he said.
Nogrod followed, suspecting Fea is sending or receiving cobbler hints. I must say that when I first read his posts I thought he was making mountains out of molehills once again, but it was proven he was right in associating Fea with cobblers (even if he did it for the wrong reasons)!
Brinn is the third, her grounds for voting are mostly the fact that she dislikes Fea's vote (more than suspects it).
Boro votes to save Lottie.
Lottie saves to vote herself.
Conclusions? The fact that Fea got lynched was really random. I don't think we can make much out of this.

Oi! Evil Greenie! Must die!
Shasta starts, says "I don't like bandwagons, I don't like lynching Lottie first constantly, I don't see what's so suspicious about her, and I especially don't like votes made apologetically." People criticised this vote came out of nowhere, but I think it actually has better grounds than many later votes, although I personally disagree with some stuff he says. It's not a very suspicious vote, except maybe exactly because it looks so good and "fresh" and maybe wants to abuse the anti-anti-Lottie mood...
Nienna votes her quite out of the blue, and so does Lottie, who later switches to save herself.
Conclusions? Not much either, would like to hear Nienna's reasoning.

edit: xed with everybody

04-10-2010, 03:58 AM	#251
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	YesterDay... all my troubles seemed so far away... ahem Okay, wagons - the Lottie-wagon - the "I'm so concerned Loslote will be lynched, look at this unreasoned crowd against her" wagon - the sudden Greenie-wagon - the victorious Fea-wagon There's something wrong with Lottie... I didn't look at this wagon through and through, but it seems to me rather simple. A crowd of people living in Finland had been suspecting Lottie (among others or then just mostly her) during the Day and partly agreed with each others points and then they had to go to sleep and vote, around the same time. Most of them (me, Greenie & Legate) chose to vottie (hahaha a typo but let's leave it means "vote Lottie", obv.), some (Aganzir) didn't. Conclusions? If you ask me, I don't think the wagon is necessarily evil. After all, I thought we had good points against Lottie even though they turned out to be wrong, and everybody had a bit of their own grounds so no one was following others blindly. But of course, the Lottie wagon doesn't make us innocent either. What can we conclude, then? At least this: please people, don't mislead yourselves by concluding I must be more innocent than Legate or Greenie because of the placement of my vote. I think we would all have voted Lottie, whatever the order of our votes, but I just happened to decide to go to sleep first. Eee! Lottie is an easy lynch and people are voting her for bad grounds! Oo, we're all gonna die! So what's wrong here? Lottie might be an easy Day1 lynch (I don't remember her fate in the games I've played with her so I can't verify this but I trust it if you say so), but the grounds for voting her weren't lousy - even though she's now proven innocent. It makes me slightly annoyed how some people seeked to discredit all suspicion against Lottie despite the fact she was possibly the person against whom there was presented the biggest amound of rational points thus far. Guilty of expressing concern over possible Lottie lynch: - Izzy (first) - Greenie (although she voted her herself, quite fishy) - Nogrod (see more below, did this twice btw) - Legate (dislikes the smoothness of the emerging Lottie wagon - a question: am I reading a totally different game than you others?! for what I've seen, there was the joke Fea vote which seemed like an obvious to be retracted vote, my and Greenie's votes, Sally's suspicion and Agan's suspicion and vote for someone else than Lottie... ..what? should we start suspecting Sally now? she's the only one whose approach could be called "smooth" or sneaky... anyway Mr L himself voted Lottie.) - Shasta - Sally ("I think Lottie's suspicious, but I get sick of Day One lynching her." That is perfectly fine, but later she starts a massive operastion Save Private Lottie, which seems rather fishy - like a wolf who tries to look good.) - Brinn (amidst general wishy-washy warning against bandwagons) Guilty of ignoring/discrediting the "proof" against Lottie: - Nogrod (well might be a bit misleading to place him here but I don't like him calling me and Greenie's votes as "rapid lynching queue" while we had been suspecting Lottie for some time already and just had to go to sleep around the same time, later he said there was too much opportunism involved. From whose part, would you clarify?) - Boro (called it hogwash for obvious reasons!) - Zil ("this push against Lottie looks bad" - oh dear, by that point more people had expressed concern over the possible lynch of Lottie than voted or spoken for voting for her , later flip-flops on which is more evil: Lottie herself or the wagon, ends up voting neither.) - Lottie (takes it as another Day1 wagon against her innocent self, but we can maybe forgive that... ha.) - Shasta ("reasoning on the bandwagon isn't superb" - admitted, but what better reasoning was there around at that time? when I went to sleep, it was in the end of page 2 and Day1 ended on page 6 so I missed quite a lot of discussion... and later Shasta calls voting Lottie bandwagoning on Fea's vote, which is at least from my part absolute nonsense because I was 100% sure Fea'd come back and retract) - Brinn (her selective memory remembers the early nonsense-points against Lottie, but not the later and more serious ones... how convenient, given that every time someone gets more than one vote it's a bandwagon and you have to cry "evil!") - Nienna (all her reaction to the points against Lottie: "suspicious bandwagon"... great.) - Sally and Izzy (Not otherwise, but they discredited Legate's vote. I wouldn't think this too bad for I too raised some eyebrows when I read his vote even though I knew he had had points against her earlier. Still, I'm inclined to think he's not evil.) - Glirdan (says the bandwagon is ridiculous and asks why get rid of Lottie since she's good at spotting wolves... really, most of us are good at that at our best, and should we lynch those who aren't just to ensure they'll never learn?) Okay, forgive my slightly personal approach here, but I really think the massive discrediting was slightly weird (and I didn't like it because I can admit I was wrong about Lottie but I don't want to admit I had ridiculous grounds for voting her 'cos I didn't), and can't be all honest (or then some of you guys are a flock of chickens). Looking at this has been helpful for me, though, because now I have some suspects: Greenie, Nog, Zil, Brinn, Shasta, Sally. I bet there are at least one or two wolves among those. PS. it's interesting Nogrod's very concerned about all the suspicion against Lottie still he is suspicious of her himself... Fea's vote is so weird she has to be bad. Skip gave the first vote early on. He grounded his suspicion well although I disagree with what he said. Nogrod followed, suspecting Fea is sending or receiving cobbler hints. I must say that when I first read his posts I thought he was making mountains out of molehills once again, but it was proven he was right in associating Fea with cobblers (even if he did it for the wrong reasons)! Brinn is the third, her grounds for voting are mostly the fact that she dislikes Fea's vote (more than suspects it). Boro votes to save Lottie. Lottie saves to vote herself. Conclusions? The fact that Fea got lynched was really random. I don't think we can make much out of this. Oi! Evil Greenie! Must die! Shasta starts, says "I don't like bandwagons, I don't like lynching Lottie first constantly, I don't see what's so suspicious about her, and I especially don't like votes made apologetically." People criticised this vote came out of nowhere, but I think it actually has better grounds than many later votes, although I personally disagree with some stuff he says. It's not a very suspicious vote, except maybe exactly because it looks so good and "fresh" and maybe wants to abuse the anti-anti-Lottie mood... Nienna votes her quite out of the blue, and so does Lottie, who later switches to save herself. Conclusions? Not much either, would like to hear Nienna's reasoning. edit: xed with everybody __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris Last edited by Thinlómien; 04-10-2010 at 04:05 AM.