[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Okay, maybe I should've chosen better words than "trapped" and "imprisoned." I did not mean to imply that the Valar bullied with their power. But from what I've gathered from the Unifinished Tales (Of the Istari), the Istari were definitely bound in incarnate forms, forever, until their mission in ME is fulfilled. It is mentioned in the UT, that to the Istari, the vision of Valinor was somewhat like a hazy dream/vision to them, and ever they yearned for it. So while they did volunteer or agreed to set out for ME, when they were bound in flesh, they definitely were limited (not out of agreement but as a consequence of becoming incarnate) in spiritual power/magic.

Hmmm...speaking strictly from a canonical source...

*Morth chuckles malignly*

...I would have to disagree somewhat. Under the heading Third Age in Appendix B of LotR it says, "[The Istari] were forbidden to match his [Sauron's] power with power..." the passage does not say they lacked the power, rather they were forbidden to use such power. This, I believe is significant, and quite telling in Saruman's later abandonment of his mission, and his seeking of power for power's sake.

He was not limited by any corporeal constraints to become Dark Lord once he had the Ring and Sauron was overthrown. This, I think, is the primary difference between Saruman and Galadriel. Galadriel had thoughts of becoming a dread and beautiful queen with the aid of the Ring, but then backed away from her folly; Saruman, however, was fully ready and capable of assuming Sauron's throne, even to the point of creating vast armies and making Rings himself (he was, like Sauron, a follower of Aule back in the good ol' days).

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Well that is true, in a sense. I agree that the full displays of power would create fear and envy among those who were less mighty, but that is precisely why they were locked in those incarnate forms by the Valar, after they were nominated to go to ME. I truly believe they were lessened by their incarnate forms. Why else would Cirdan surrender Narya to Gandalf? In his true maia form, he wouldn't need Narya's support, but he does need it in his incarnate form to ward off the weariness. And these fair promptings or visions of wisdom, this was his power in the West. But when he came to ME, that is why Narya was surrendered to him because it worked accordingly with his natural powers to inspire. This gives me the impression that in incarnate form, Gandalf isn't effective in inspiring peoples of ME like he was in the West in his true form. Hence why Cirdan surrendered Narya to him for that much needed power boost. Without Narya, he would not be able to accomplish some of the feats.

I think the primary misunderstanding many well-read folk have regarding the making of Elvish Rings is the intent Celebrimbor and the Gwaith-i-Mirdain had in their creation. These were not Rings of domination but of preservation. Does Gandalf need Narya to ward off weariness? Perhaps, but not any moreso than Sauron or Saruman need the One Ring to culminate their quest for complete power. All the great players in the 3rd Age either have Rings or covet Rings they don't have.

In the same Appendix B, Cirdan tells Gandalf, in addition to supporting his own weariness, "this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that has grown chill." Cirdan, for his underplayed but important part, understood Gandalf's role and may well have been told about the prohibitions against power the Istari had placed upon them by the Valar. The Valar themselves were abject failures in moving the greater part of the peoples of Middle-earth, even the more sensible Elves. How then could a single Maiar, whether cloaked or uncloaked, hope to move the peoples to rise up and fight, and more importantly, fight cohesively without an overt display of power and grandeur? This was Narya's primary function, to conserve the will and instill that will to fight against terrible odds.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

The full power remains? I'd have to disagree. Why else were the Istari dependent on their staves? When Gandalf broke Saruman's staff, Saruman was greatly diminished... almost insignificant.

The staffs were symbolic, and at best a method of concentrating power. At the point where Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff, Gandalf is now Saruman, or as Saruman should have been. The breaking of the staff merely made the verdict of the Valar official. Gandalf defeated a Balrog with Glamdring and not his staff, thus proving that arcane efficacy lay in the innate power of the individual and not an appliance.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Lastly, why was Gandalf afraid of the Witch-king (or why was the Witch-king so confident he'd mop Gandalf to the floor) at their meeting in the gates of Minas Tirith?

You are confusing movie lunacy with textual proofs. Nowhere in the book is Gandalf afraid of the WitchKing, who is all talk just like any schoolyard bully. Gandalf had already faced several Nazgul alone on Weathertop and defeated a Balrog. Where exactly does Gandalf show any trepidation whatsoever? Sauron was Gandalf's primary foe, not the WitchKing. Gandalf and WiKi do not meet in battle at the last because Tolkien wished to show that the chain reaction Gandalf had started among the Free Peoples was more important than single combat. The WitchKing ends up dying ignobly to a young, untested woman and a wounded Hobbit.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

No, they were definitely powered down, I believe. Because if the only challenege was the righteous application of that power ("full" power, as you said), then Saruman would have been more effective, through and through, in his machinations, considering he was deemed mightiest in the order. Gandalf wouldn't have accepted Narya. And the Istari would have had no problem forsaking their old-men-incognito for a much more powerful and less restrictive form (e.g. Melian), especially for Saruman who has fallen from the right path.

No, they were forbidden to match power with power. It says so in the book. Saruman, eschewing the bonds by which the Valar constrained him, could indeed have become Dark Lord had he had some better luck. Fate just wasn't with him.