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Legate of Amon Lanc · 08-26-2009, 08:13 AM

Okay, now that's a significant quote. However, I do not believe that this would be a proof of some contact of Gondor with Beornings or Thranduil's folk. Rumors pass, even the Hobbits in the Shire knew about Mordor being inhabited again - and how far it is from Mordor to the Shire? The Gondorians, diminished however their realm may have been, still probably kept a close eye on what's going on in the East, and also upon Mirkwood. It was almost their border! The Rohirrim would know that forces are stirring in Mirkwood again. The Gondorians had numerous experiences with that from earlier days, when their realm reached far beyond Anduin. But the Elves of Mirkwood are far too remote for the Gondorians to reach. And anyway, rumors pass. The kingdom of Erebor was certainly significant enough* so that the Gondorians would know that the Easterlings are threatening it, but they probably had hardly any contact with it at all, not any diplomatic contacts. Isn't it in a way interesting to see late Third-Age Kingdom of Dale in the eyes of Gondor as a faraway rich and relatively powerful country?
Also what you said about Palantír doesn't necessarily mean that Denethor would not share his knowledge. He would not say from where it came, but he could tell his generals about this (and we know he did share some facts, as people were wondering how wise he is and how surprisingly much he knows). So he could also see the war in the far northeast and so it reached Beregond's ears.

*A side note (off-topic, but it occured to me now) - actually, curious, isn't it, just from the economic point of view: it would make sense for the Gondorians to actually maintain contact with Erebor, and the Northernmen in Dale and Lake-Town (as in old times anyway). It would be nice to have a route around the eastern borders of Mirkwood. But alas, such journey was probably impossible by the end of the Third Age, as the threat would be far too big. Easterlings and Dol Guldur - not a nice view. The only ones who would come to Erebor from south would be the messengers of Sauron... just as they did.

But it makes a lot more sense, in the light of this, that there were basically only two major trade routes in M-E, that is the west-east one from let's say Lindon to Erebor and the other NW-SE from Lindon as far as Gondor. And now it is clear to me at last why they form this sort of "incomplete triangle": as the third part of the triangle, i.e. Gondor-Erebor, just wouldn't work now.

(x-ed with Inzil, and I see he brings the same point)

08-26-2009, 08:13 AM	#20
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Okay, now that's a significant quote. However, I do not believe that this would be a proof of some contact of Gondor with Beornings or Thranduil's folk. Rumors pass, even the Hobbits in the Shire knew about Mordor being inhabited again - and how far it is from Mordor to the Shire? The Gondorians, diminished however their realm may have been, still probably kept a close eye on what's going on in the East, and also upon Mirkwood. It was almost their border! The Rohirrim would know that forces are stirring in Mirkwood again. The Gondorians had numerous experiences with that from earlier days, when their realm reached far beyond Anduin. But the Elves of Mirkwood are far too remote for the Gondorians to reach. And anyway, rumors pass. The kingdom of Erebor was certainly significant enough* so that the Gondorians would know that the Easterlings are threatening it, but they probably had hardly any contact with it at all, not any diplomatic contacts. Isn't it in a way interesting to see late Third-Age Kingdom of Dale in the eyes of Gondor as a faraway rich and relatively powerful country? Also what you said about Palantír doesn't necessarily mean that Denethor would not share his knowledge. He would not say from where it came, but he could tell his generals about this (and we know he did share some facts, as people were wondering how wise he is and how surprisingly much he knows). So he could also see the war in the far northeast and so it reached Beregond's ears. A side note (off-topic, but it occured to me now) - actually, curious, isn't it, just from the economic point of view: it would make sense for the Gondorians to actually maintain contact with Erebor, and the Northernmen in Dale and Lake-Town (as in old times anyway). It would be nice to have a route around the eastern borders of Mirkwood. But alas, such journey was probably impossible by the end of the Third Age, as the threat would be far too big. Easterlings and Dol Guldur - not a nice view. The only ones who would come to Erebor from south would be the messengers of Sauron... just as they did. But it makes a lot more sense, in the light of this, that there were basically only two major trade routes in M-E, that is the west-east one from let's say Lindon to Erebor and the other NW-SE from Lindon as far as Gondor. And now it is clear to me at last why they form this sort of "incomplete triangle": as the third part of the triangle, i.e. Gondor-Erebor, just wouldn't work now. (x-ed with Inzil*, and I see he brings the same point) __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories