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Originally Posted by davem

Well, as someone who has smoked pipe, cigarettes & cigars in the past

Would you agree that pipes, as seen in the movies that we're discussing, have the least 'offensiveness?' They all create smoke, but even as a nonsmoker I find pipe smoke less annoying, plus there's the lack of the non-decaying filter thing, meaning that at the end of smoking a pipe, all you have is ash (I assume).

(stopping when my little boy made his appearance)

Excellent!

I have never driven a car, preferring either bus, train or 'Shank's pony'. Hence, I like to think I can take the role of disinterested party on this subject. Other people's smoke is bad, & they should keep it to themselves. But they should also keep their music (particularly the horrid little 'tss- tss' of their Ipods), their BO, & their exhaust fumes (which are much more dangerous than second hand tobacco smoke - would you prefer to be locked in a sealed room with a running car or with a smoker puffing away?).

Depends on the size of the 'combustion' engine, whether mechanical or organic. But much agreed.

Point is, there are lots of things people do which impinge on others, & which are to some degree unpleasant, but we are human beings, flawed, fallen & mostly bloody annoying even (or ironically, especially) when we're trying our best not to be. Smoking, it seems to me, is kept legal by the government 'cos they make lots 'n' lots of money out of it, & gives non-smokers a group they can look down on, & complain about.

Agreed.

One issue is that I can indulge in my vices - cheeseburger-flavoured double fried donuts topped with real bacon, washed down with 64 oz of overpriced (but fair traded) coffee - and no one has to share in the experience...unless they can't help staring. With smoking, it's much harder to keep it to oneself. It's not only the smoke, but the lingering residue as well.

As to the 'addicts' standing outside in the rain & snow puffing away,

Note that I was making the point that, not only is nicotine addictive, people also have developed ways of getting their fixes despite adverse conditions. You won't see me out in the cold looking for a donut shop. Also, as a nonsmoker, I see it as somewhat odd that you would stand around with a bunch of people with whom you share just that one thing - cigarettes. Obviously I take breaks when working, but the smokers in the building take breaks in groups, as I guess that it's more fun to puff with company - I just don't get it.

Surely some anthropologist has done a study.

Smoking is one of many dirty, unhealthy & annoying habits human beings indulge in & the real puzzle for me is why its become seen as a 'moral' issue.

As you say, it's the one unforgivable sin. We can find compassion for other 'wrongdoers,' as long as they're not smokers.

I honestly don't see how anyone who drives a car regularly can complain about smokers producing smells, carcinogenic fumes, or being a danger to themselves & others - & if we're talking about damage to the environment I don't think the smokers are the ones posing the risk.

You obviously need more practice with being a hypocrite. But note that as *they* are after tobacco, they are also after my car.

What I find funny is the coupling of cigarette sales with gas (petrol) stations. Okay, so most don't light up when they are actually pumping the highly combustible fluid into their vehicles, but they light up right around the place...

That said, of course, there are those who indulge in both pastimes so I'm sure my argument collapses in some way right there. I note that Tolkien gave up his car but kept his pipe, & personally I think he was right.

If only we had the transportation systems you 'cousins' have...and *someone* has to burn up all of the remaining fossil fuels.

Nope, this is a moral crusade against a smelly habit, which is no worse than many other human follies & foibles, & merely confirms to me only that the human race has lost its wits as well as its moral compass.

Agreed. There is so many other things wrong with the world, like starving children. Think that Tolkien has his hobbits tell it right - there are those that just can't help but mind everyone else's business, and even Peter Jackson has his version of Saruman monologuing about 'order' and yet Merry and Pippin find barrels of pipeweed in the flood.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Originally Posted by Lush

"...The saddest thing that I'd ever seen
Were smokers outside the hospital doors."

Nope. It's the women outside the local maternity hospital, in those tie-back gowns, obviously just minutes/hours away from giving birth, still puffing away.