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Fordim Hedgethistle · 08-12-2009, 08:55 PM

I just wanted to say here how much I am admiring Tolkien's craft in all this. The mere fact that we not only can but are having this debate is I think the point. Tolkien did not give us a hero with an easily understood and simple motivation...either for good or for his eventual 'evil' (e.g. his 'failure'). I'm really quite at a loss to think of any hero in heroic literature who is so very opaque on this score. You always know what they are 'about' and what their motivations are. Heroes are simple.

And I admit that I have in the past been rather too simple minded in my approach to Frodo. I figured he was simple too: Ring must be destroyed, so I will destroy it, Ring too strong, but it still gets destroyed by Frodo's goodness. The goodness has never been questionable or dubious to me. Not even mysterious. But now it is.

Nerwen put it best: "But... Fordim, this is all based on your personal interpretation of how the Ring works. If it works by twisting a person's nature, rather than by simply developing it, there's no reason to think Frodo always wanted to be the Dark Lord, is there?" That's what we're working through here...a set of differing interpretations of the book. No big deal in normal circumstances, but what we're differing on, what is mysterious, remains:

a) what was Frodo's motivation for destroying the Ring?

b) what was it in Frodo that made him vulnerable to the Ring and how is that connected to point a)?

c) why is it that his corruption/seduction by the Ring (and is it seduction or corruption--very different things) is so very different in nature from what happens to others?

I still think that it's too simple to brush aside the observation that Frodo was tempted in a way qualitatively (and disturbingly) different from the others. They all wanted to destroy Mordor with their own vision of the world (with them at the helm of course), while Frodo seemed to want simply to take over Mordor. He doesn't wish to mimic the Dark Lord and his works but to usurp him. Chilling stuff if you think of it. To paraphrase Aragorn in Moria, this hobbit is indeed made of sterner stuff than I'd imagined.

08-12-2009, 08:55 PM	#31
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	I just wanted to say here how much I am admiring Tolkien's craft in all this. The mere fact that we not only can but are having this debate is I think the point. Tolkien did not give us a hero with an easily understood and simple motivation...either for good or for his eventual 'evil' (e.g. his 'failure'). I'm really quite at a loss to think of any hero in heroic literature who is so very opaque on this score. You always know what they are 'about' and what their motivations are. Heroes are simple. And I admit that I have in the past been rather too simple minded in my approach to Frodo. I figured he was simple too: Ring must be destroyed, so I will destroy it, Ring too strong, but it still gets destroyed by Frodo's goodness. The goodness has never been questionable or dubious to me. Not even mysterious. But now it is. Nerwen put it best: "But... Fordim, this is all based on your personal interpretation of how the Ring works. If it works by twisting a person's nature, rather than by simply developing it, there's no reason to think Frodo always wanted to be the Dark Lord, is there?" That's what we're working through here...a set of differing interpretations of the book. No big deal in normal circumstances, but what we're differing on, what is mysterious, remains: a) what was Frodo's motivation for destroying the Ring? b) what was it in Frodo that made him vulnerable to the Ring and how is that connected to point a)? c) why is it that his corruption/seduction by the Ring (and is it seduction or corruption--very different things) is so very different in nature from what happens to others? I still think that it's too simple to brush aside the observation that Frodo was tempted in a way qualitatively (and disturbingly) different from the others. They all wanted to destroy Mordor with their own vision of the world (with them at the helm of course), while Frodo seemed to want simply to take over Mordor. He doesn't wish to mimic the Dark Lord and his works but to usurp him. Chilling stuff if you think of it. To paraphrase Aragorn in Moria, this hobbit is indeed made of sterner stuff than I'd imagined. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.