The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - For in that sleep of death what dreams may come.

Aiwendil · 05-05-2009, 04:10 PM

I think three varieties of return from the dead can be differentiated:

Rebirth: The spirit returns in the body of a newly-born infant. This was Tolkien's original idea for the Elves, and apparently for the Dwarf-fathers, but was later dropped for metaphysical reasons. This is sometimes called 'reincarnation' in the context of Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., but I don't think Tolkien every referred to it that way.

Reincarnation: A new (adult) body is made, fully formed, for the returning spirit. This was Tolkien's later idea for the manner of the Elves' return from death.

Resurrection: The original body, still intact, is re-inhabited by the spirit. This was apparently Tolkien's later idea for the manner of the Dwarf-fathers' return (from, I believe, 'Of Dwarves and Men').

The names could perhaps be quibbled with (and actually, I don't recall Tolkien using the word 'resurrection'), but I think the different concepts are clearly delineated. The Turin and Gandalf examples are clearly reincarnation. The Beren example was either reincarnation or resurrection. But the important points are that: 1. Tolkien eventually rejected the idea of 'rebirth' entirely, and 2. the occurrence of any of these things for the spirit of a human is quite exceptional.

05-05-2009, 04:10 PM	#7
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I think three varieties of return from the dead can be differentiated: Rebirth: The spirit returns in the body of a newly-born infant. This was Tolkien's original idea for the Elves, and apparently for the Dwarf-fathers, but was later dropped for metaphysical reasons. This is sometimes called 'reincarnation' in the context of Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., but I don't think Tolkien every referred to it that way. Reincarnation: A new (adult) body is made, fully formed, for the returning spirit. This was Tolkien's later idea for the manner of the Elves' return from death. Resurrection: The original body, still intact, is re-inhabited by the spirit. This was apparently Tolkien's later idea for the manner of the Dwarf-fathers' return (from, I believe, 'Of Dwarves and Men'). The names could perhaps be quibbled with (and actually, I don't recall Tolkien using the word 'resurrection'), but I think the different concepts are clearly delineated. The Turin and Gandalf examples are clearly reincarnation. The Beren example was either reincarnation or resurrection. But the important points are that: 1. Tolkien eventually rejected the idea of 'rebirth' entirely, and 2. the occurrence of any of these things for the spirit of a human is quite exceptional.