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Old 04-16-2009, 11:55 PM   #13
Gordis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
I think that's a slight misrepresentation of Gondor's strategy. In June 3018, Sauron drove Gondor out of Ithilien and they held Osgiliath as long as possible:
No, Kent, I believe you have misunderstood me. I was speaking not of 3018, but of the time when the Bridge had been rebuilt.

Let me explain again. The exact quotes are in my previous post.

We know that the Rammas was built after Gondor had lost Ithilien (my first quote). It couldn't have happened in 3018, as you say - by this time Ithilien was already long lost (except for the secret Henneth Annun) and the Rammas was already old and ruined and needed repairs.
According to the Tale of Years "Most of the remaining inhabitants of Ithilien desert it " in 2901. I think the Rammas was built then.

The bridge over the Anduin had been destroyed in 2475 (TY) and rebuilt "in the days of the youth of Denethor"(LOTR text). That would be 2930-2950. I think if the Rammas had been started in 2901, it would be completed around 2030-2040 - at the same time when the Bridge was rebuilt.
I think these events were linked: the Gondorians thought it safe to rebuild the Bridge because they now had the Rammas.
I may be wrong, but the dates seem to fit and there is some logic here.

Note that all these building projects happened BEFORE Sauron returned and declared himself officially in Mordor (2951). Before that, when only the Nazgul in Minas Morgul opposed Gondor, the war was slowly smoldering, but never any large-scale assault on Minas Tirith from Minas Morgul had been attempted.

Quote:
It's not like they just rebuilt a bridge so Sauron could have a free pass until he runs into a wall - a wall that was "useless." There were several levels of defense.
It was not their intention, certainly - but when Sauron returned shortly after the bridge had been completed they must have realised their mistake. Yet they left the Bridge standing.

Quote:
They held Osgiliath as long as possible, and wisely destroyed all the bridges. When Sauron decides he can and will cross, the Rammas Echor is just another significant obstacle for Sauron to get through.
Now what happened in June 3018? Sauron sent the Witch-King to attack the bridge of Osgiliath - and the bridge was obviously taken and held for some time (that enabled the Nazgul to cross the river.) Later, when the nazgul were gone and Mordor's objective accomplished, Gondor was able to rally and destroy the Bridge.

It was very fortunate for Gondor that this time Sauron employed only a fraction of his force without intention to attack Minas Tirith straight away with all his might. If he made his major stroke in June 3018, the Gondorians wouldn't have been able to destroy the bridge and Mordor's army would have been at the Gates of Minas Tirith very fast. The city would have likely been taken before the aid from Rohan could arrive.

Quote:
If anything Gandalf criticized Denethor for not finishing the wall soon enough and not calling in the armies sooner:
I think Gandalf meant that now Denethor was only wasting time and effort on the Rammas. Rammas wouldn't help him now.
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