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Old 02-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #4
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
It isn't pessimism that underlays my interpretation, but a comparison with others who bore the Ring, such as Bilbo and Frodo.
Well, all right, let me formulate it in different words: it's lack of optimism. Or, lack of hope (this estel that works so strongly in Tolkien's works) for Gollum, simply, not believing that it would be possible for him to get rid of his "addiction" to the Ring, despite all his natural dispositions (or the habit, the "addiction" he had developed). I think that is certainly out of place, not to believe that there was hope for Gollum. (Even Gandalf thinks that.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordis View Post
You see Legate, if the Three (and the Nine) had lost their power immediately, like the One, then the effect of this on the rings' creations would have been similar. Barad-Dur didn't start to wane slowly - it disappeared in a blast, its foundations suddenly gone. As did Morannon. Sauron had lost shape in mere seconds, and, according to your theory, his material body would be slowly losing substance instead. Nay, there was difference.
Hmm... well yes, though one can argue that Sauron himself put so much into the One, he put a part of himself into it - that was the point of Tolkien, I am sure, he makes it clear on the analogical tale of the Drugh Aghan and his statue in the UT. There is nothing like that in the relation of the bearers of the Three, Seven and Nine to their Rings. (With the Nazgul, what I consider the problem is the fact that they were dead - Bilbo, Frodo and Gollum were not. The Ring[s? All right, now just thinking along these lines, that might go to further lengths than we might like. Let's leave this topic now.] made them un-dead, after the destruction, you can remove the prefix: they just became dead.)
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However, your point is taken. It is certainly worth thinking about and you are right that one cannot just dismiss these facts.

Quote:
Also, once the Rings lose power, they become visible to everyone, it seems. Frodo had traveled with Elrond, Gandalf and Galadriel back from Gondor, but he saw their Rings only on the road to the Havens two years later, in 3021. I think it took two years for the Three to lose power.
But I certainly cannot accept this as a proof. The Ringbearers simply wore the Rings uncovered, in any way, it is even told there that they bore it openly - so emphasised, I believe it was simply so that this was the last journey of the Ringbearers, that was the last sign that the time of the Rings is over, and so they were wearing them totally openly - in all ways you can imagine. Back then when returning home, it was not yet quite the time - not that it would have mattered, but when going to the Grey Havens, it also might be that it had to be clear that they are the Ringbearers, and they were openly showing everybody that they are leaving these shores.
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