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Old 02-21-2009, 10:54 PM   #15
Selador
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Gandalf's death was devastating blow, littlemanpoet, but even despite Aragorn's words, I don't think that all Hope truly died with Gandalf. Or, perhaps it can be said that Hope can always be reborn. There are many more passages which show the vital importance of Hope to the quest, but I think those are really tangential to this topic.

You are right, though, it is always dangerous to speak in generalities, and I did not mean to suggest that it was all clear cut. It is not to me, anyway. In general, however, it is apparent that Elves did have a positive effect on Men, and this seems to be attributable to indirect divine influence. Tolkien wrote in a letter to Milt Waldman (Letter #131 from Humphrey Carpenter's book):

But Sauron dominates all the multiplying hordes of Men that have had no contact with the Elves and so indirectly with the true and unfallen Valar and gods.

Similarly, Morgoth's and Sauron's influence did obviously have a corrupting influence on Men, in general, but I do not think this meant that all men were doomed to be evil as a result.

And when it comes to generalizations, if we generalize history, isn't it just inevitable that we view Men as evil? That is, if some men take to evil and so try to dominate other men, history will always involve conflict of man against man, even though many men are trying to be "good". And History will always be warlike, even though many men may be peace-loving and only trying to defend themselves. And isn't that in fact the very way Man's history has unwound?

Kuruharan, what do you think it is in particular that Elves are able to do to change Men's evil ways?
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