[satansaloser2005]

A bit of a mish mash, but here are some thoughts.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Angels
Legate - still gives me no reason to suspect himself, seems sharp, honest and open. Actually, the only thing that troubles me about him is that he doesn't trouble me at all...
Mac - my gut-feeling says he's innocent, after all. Besides, he has made some good points in his defense, like for example that if he really was making wolf-slips all the time, he'd be far more nervous by now.
Nerwen - I just don't suspect her.
Rikae - despite the fact that I've disagreed quite a lot with her lately, I think she's innocent.
Rune - all the "proof" I've seen points at his innocence.

Gargoyles
Aganzir - I hate to admit this, but now that I'm less annoyed with her, I'm also less suspicious of her. I'm sure she really bears watching, though.
Beregond - seems sensible, calm and smart, but maybe indeed using the newbie-shield too much? I have to say I'm not too worried, though.
Fea - throughout the game, I've had a gut-feeling that she's not a wolf. And she does have very innocent posts. On the other hand, like discussed very extensively, she's been acting really fishily. But like I've said, it's unlikely she's a wraith - whether she's ordo or Ferny, that can be debated and to that, I have no answer.
Greenie - I don't know, currently I have the feeling I can't read her but she seems ok. (See? My suspicion of her fades with the general one...)
Menel - I have to admit I let him slip under my radar. Just because he seems innocent enough.
Mira - seemed very innocent on Day1, less so on Day2. I'd like to hear more of her.

Demons
Brinniel - I know it's silly she's stuck here, but I can't help it, it's just a gut feeling that she's up to no good. I have little actual rational reasons to suspect her but I just don't trust her. And no, it's really not just because of last game.
Lari - flip-floppy and not convincing. I'm worried, though, that she might become the "easy victim" for the lynch.
sally - I have a bad feeling about her, I don't like her chipper attitude and aplogising/flip-flopping. She has said some weird stuff, some I have even commented, but I don't remember them well enough to quote them here.

If I have time toDay, I'd love to have a look at either sally or Brinn to see if there are any rational reasons to suspect them. Probably at sally because she's evaded the spotlight far more carefully than Brinn...


edit: xed with Rikae and Agan

You don't like that I'm perky and cheerful? And flip-flopping? I don't see how. (Oh, never mind I remember why she said that. Retracted, because I can see why she thought that, wrong though it may be.) Her thoughts, however, include mostly "I don't know, but they're (insert role guess) because of (insert non-existent reasoning). Not that I'm not guilty of that a lot too, but it just strikes me as strange. Also, I disagree about Rune, which I'll probably explain a bit later in another post.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Mac makes some sense throughout the Day, but I believe if anyone, he is up to impersonating a sensible innocent while being a Wolf and wishing all the worst.

Also, it is possible him offering these four options for why Shasta was killed was a way of him presenting some options to the innocents: "And now, choose, come all, come all! Do you want to believe X is a Wolf? Option #1 is just what you need! Or would you rather suspect Y? Come on, I am offering you this brand-new option #2! Go and lynch them!" etc.

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.

But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie. No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

And Menel actually said a good thing about this:



Which makes me think - was this an attempt from Fea to draw out the real Seer? Quite possible. Very possible.

And related, one more thing to Beregond:

I don't get this, is "red herring" any saying, or does it have anything to do with me? (You know, my role.) Like, if Berewolf could give hints to Fea Ferny, trying to communicate, like that I was the Seer, or something?

Mac's list in #326 is so "neutral" (in the sense: most people are "innocent" or "no idea about" or such), so that I can imagine it as a list of a Wolf trying to be on good terms with everyone, especially as it seems that he may be suspected by some.
(Which is, as I see, exactly what Rikae said in her post right after that.)

I have to ask, at this moment, why the heck was Mac not lynched yesterDay? At this point (where I am reading now), it looks so obvious! <= Okay, now I wrote this when I was still reading the thread, this is written when I am actually posting the post: I would not call that "so obvious" anymore, but still, he looks Wolfy enough.

And, okay, I haven't read toDay yet, but I can think of one reason (as I am reading through yesterDay) why Nog was killed: because the Wolves thought he is a Ranger. And why? Because they thought he is a Ranger and is annoyed by the fact that (according to him) Durelin was impersonating him. A normal person would not have taken Dury's "ranger impersonation" (in my opinion, and probably also in the Wolves' opinion, as I really don't get what Nog followed by that - that was really an obvious IC post) in any serious manner, but a Ranger could perhaps be more attentive and startled by that? However, it showed that Nog was not a Ranger after all. But I can imagine the scenario working like that.



Geez! And again! Okay, I don't mind when Mirandir asks about debating about the Ranger, he is a newbie. But Fea AGAIN joins in a speculation which started (by a newbie's remark) about a Gifted's role! Gifteds are not to be speculated about! They are too valuable for the village to reveal, for Eru's sake, not unless there is any good reason for them to do that! Fea is not a newbie, she should know that. SHE IS A COBBLER! There can be NO OTHER explanation.

****

My two most important conclusions of Day 2:

1. Fea is an OBVIOUS Cobbler. Informer. Bill Ferny. Whatever you call it.
2. Mac is likely a Wolf. Wraith. Whatever you call it.

These two information, unless they get relativised by what I read today, are two basic things I would like to propose in front of you to consider. I really can't see how anybody can think otherwise (about Fea at least), and how people might have voted Durelin, for mostly quite silly reasons (need to look at that once again, but in general, saving Fea makes little sense - even though of course it is better to lynch a Wraith than an Informer, though - but when she was about to go already... people were actually saving her, that's what was the worst on that).

Now onto toDay and I will be with you in the present.

Sorry, I know it's a huge quote and just a bit of reaction, but I want to know why he is so sure of these two facts. As I said before (though poorly, unfortunately) I think Mac was fairly honest in his intentions yesterDay. I realize he looked fairly suspicious, but it seems to me that he was truly just trying to save himself, and (as others have said) the wraiths could have jumped at the chance to kill Durie. Not to say that they did, but I'm pretty sure that Mac was just worried about survival. (In particular, I'm worried about Rikae, who easily could be a baddie just hiding behind a love of Mac and ice cream. )

I don't know about the Nog=ranger theory though. I don't think he would have acted the way he did if he was the ranger, so I'm thinking it was either to appear to set up Fea or just a random kill. Or to screw with us.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Legate, whew, thank goodness somebody sees through Fea. I thought I was going crazy here. I do still say a wolfish Fea can act cobblerish, though (which only makes her a more attractive lynch, of course).

Mac... well, I don't think he's Ferny, and I don't think he's an ordo. Ergo, I'll let him fight his own battles. I focus on him too much in these games.

By the way, "red herring" is a saying. It means a distracting, false hint, basically.

I was going to finish looking at Lommy, but I'm finding her more innocentish anyway.... perhaps my time would be better spent looking at Lari.

It also occurs to me that this whole crazy situation could very easily allow some wolves to put themselves in a positive light simply by being on the right side of this Fea-Dury nonsense. In fact, I suspect that's one of the main purposes of the whole fiasco.

Be back later.

Very good point. People have said that the wraiths were responsible for getting Durie killed, but they could have just as easily avoided the lynch in order to make sure they couldn't be traced by it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

Good to know. I had the strangest dream concerning the game last Night and it involved Frodo and some really strange stuff. (Random, I know.) Anyway, I was going to check the rules but now I don't have to. Heh.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Things that make Rune look suspicious in my opinion:

I understand wanting to keep someone around for the sake of entertainment (and we all know that Fea is an excellent source of that) but it seems like a silly reason to not vote for someone if you have actual suspicions towards them. Now, this is not saying that he had suspicions towards her, just that it's a silly reason to vote someone else.

This seems like a very newbie-ish move to me. Yes, I understand feeling a certain sense of loyalty to someone because they agreed with you. However, that is hardly an adequate reason to support them on their next Day vote. It makes it seem like you are unable to come up with justification of your own as to why someone should be killed, or that you are in an ill-hidden alliance. If the latter is the case, however, one would think that he would do a better job of at least attempting to hide it.

I agree with this, and Rune's 'defense' of his action later does nothing to dissuade me. You don't defend someone just because they agree with you. For all you know they could be playing you (or you them, as the case may be). Rune has been giving me bad vibes for a bit now and this definitely didn't help. Just because someone voted in a way that pleased you yesterDay doesn't mean you should return the favor toDay. Unless of course I'm the someone in question.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?

I haven't refreshed in a while but I'm guessing no.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Alright, while I keep deciding who to vote for and contemplating, I would like to say that I took a leaf out of Edward's book and googled "skarn". Which means, at least in one place, "bad boy, maker of trouble". Is this a clue to what Rune is?

Doubtful, but I'd laugh if it was.


Okay, posting this so I can catch up again and get to my real thoughts instead of just reaction type stuff. Back soon~!



EDIT: x'd with a ton because my computer was being a butt so I wasn't able to do all I wanted and I'm behind again. Blast.